§ 3.18 p.m.
EARL ST. ALDWYNMy Lords, following the announcement just made by my noble friend, perhaps I might inform your Lordships about the rearrangement of business between now and Prorogation to-morrow. The following proposals have been discussed through the usual channels in both Houses, and I hope they will be acceptable to your Lordships.
The Local Government Bill already before your Lordships' House is urgent, and in the circumstances it is hoped that the Committee stage can be taken formally to-day. This would enable the Bill to complete its remaining stages to-morrow and to receive the Royal Assent. It is also proposed to take to-morrow the remaining stages of the Charlwood and Horley Bill and the Statutory Corporations (Financial Provisions) Bill, both of 906 which will be advanced from the dates on which they are now down on the Order Paper. The Biological Weapons Bill, which is to have its Committee stage to-day, will receive its Third Reading to-morrow, and I hope that your Lordships will agree to the Ancillary Dental Workers Regulations being taken as well.
In addition to these items already before the House, it is anticipated that your Lordships will be asked to consider and to take through all their stages the Pensions (Increase) Bill, the Consolidated Fund (Appropriation) Bill and the Representation of the People Bill, if these Bills complete all their stages in another place to-day. I would also propose that Motions respecting the continuation of the State of Emergency should be considered by your Lordships. Finally, the Government will be tabling to-night, for consideration to-morrow, a Motion clarifying the position of the Members of the European Parliament during the Dissolution. The effect of this will be to ensure that British interests at the European Parliament may be represented until such time as a new Parliament designates new delegates to the European Parliament. It will therefore be necessary to ask the House to meet at eleven o'clock to-morrow morning to complete this urgent business. At a convenient moment after this, the Royal Commission giving the Royal Assent to the Bills and Proroguing Parliament will take place.
§ 3.20 p.m.
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Earl for making what is a rather complex Statement. No doubt some noble Lords will be comforted by the fact that the European Parliament will be looking after our affairs during a moment of deep national crisis. Last night many of us said rather clearly what we thought regarding Government policy. But it is not the custom of your Lordships' House to start fighting an Election in this House; it is a matter in which others are more concerned. Although we would not wish now to delay an Election with the great hope of a new Government, I should like to ask a few questions regarding business.
It is unfortunate that the Local Government Bill has to be taken through all its stages. I understand that not only are there important Amendments from 907 our side, but possibly there are even more important Amendments from the Government side. On the other hand, all those who have been concerned with this Bill have been consulted and agree that it is a matter of such urgency from the standpoint of the local authorities—not to mention the ratepayers—that the Bill should go through. May I ask whether the Leader of the House will give an undertaking—I appreciate that he cannot bind a future Government—that if, by some mischance, the present Government are still in office they will be prepared to consider providing an opportunity, through fresh legislation if necessary, to deal with some of the important matters about which noble Lords on both sides of the House are concerned? It is rather unsatisfactory that the Committee stage of this Bill should go through "on the nod". But we accept, as do my friends in another place, the necessity of proceeding accordingly.
Looking at the other items, there seems to be no difficulty. Clearly the Pensions Increase Bill, which is the outcome of Whitley Council discussions, is important and no doubt the Leader of the House, in his capacity as Minister in charge of the Civil Service, will be looking after this. Will the Proclamation on the Emergency be made to-day and the Orders come before us to-morrow? It has been our custom to facilitate such Orders, although if the House and Parliament had continued sitting it is likely that we should have wished to debate this matter and raise criticisms, some of which we made yesterday.
§ LORD GLADWYNMy Lords, from these Benches I should like to associate myself with what the noble Lord, Lord Shackleton, said. We are entirely happy with the proposed business for to-day and to-morrow.
§ LORD WIGGMy Lords, I wonder whether it is permissible for me to thank the Leader of the House, not only on my own behalf but, I am sure, on behalf of all Members of your Lordships' House, for the courtesy and kindness with which he has discharged his duties during the short time that he has held his present office. May I express the earnest hope to him that he will have a long holiday 908 on the day following Polling Day and will shortly afterwards find a congenial and well-paid occupation.
§ LORD WINDLESHAMMy Lords, I appreciate very much the remarks made by the noble Lord, Lord Wigg. I shall be working hard in the next few weeks to deprive him of that pleasure. The Government Chief Whip and I are extremely grateful to the Leaders of the Labour Party and Liberal Party in this House for the way they have made possible this drastic reorganisation of business. It is normally the tradition that Government and Opposition try to get together when an announcement is made to see what essential legislation should be enabled to go through. Inevitably this means that the normal Parliamentary procedures are foreshortened. The principal casualty in this instance is the Local Government Bill, which your Lordships were due to consider in Committee this afternoon. If what has been discussed through the usual channels proves acceptable to your Lordships, it means that there will in effect be no Committee stage, Report stage or Third Reading in this House.
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, as I understand it, there has to be a Committee stage; we are already committed to that. I understand that noble Lords will just say, "Not moved". Is that correct?
§ LORD WINDLESHAMMy Lords, I will explain the procedure and attempt to guide the House when the time comes. What the noble Lord has said is correct. I was saying that there will be no effective Committee procedure; there will be no opportunity for noble Lords to amend the Bill or indeed for the Government to make amendments to the Bill. I can willingly give the noble Lord the assurance for which he has asked. If there are points which noble Lords feel strongly about and which they had intended to raise in Committee, my noble friend Baroness Young will be only too ready to meet them as early as possible, either later this week or early next week if that is what they wish, in order to discuss their Amendments to find out the strength of feeling behind them.
The Secretary of State for the Environment is already considering the Amendments which were proposed by the Government to this Bill. I have discussed 909 this with him personally and I can assure noble Lords that his mind is quite open. If he believes it to be necessary in a new Parliament—if we are fortunate enough to be the Government at that time—he will be ready to consider fresh legislation. As to the State of Emergency, what the noble Lord, Lord Shackleton, said is correct. I will be delivering to your Lordships the Queen's Message, the Proclamation on the State of Emergency, later this afternoon, together with a Statement made by the Home Secretary in another place that accompanies it. To-morrow, in accordance with the usual practice, we will have the Motions and the Regulations before the House. I am most grateful to the House for the way in which these proposals to reorganise our business have been met.
§ LORD BLYTONMy Lords, can the noble Lord say when he reintroduces the Emergency Regulations to-morrow whether the Government are going to abolish the three-day week for the printing trade? In the three weeks before the Election a three-day week for the printing trade will make it impossible for candidates to get the necessary propaganda published.
§ LORD WINDLESHAMMy Lords, perhaps this is a point we can discuss when we have the Regulations before us to-morrow.
§ LORD HALEMy Lords, can the noble Lord say whether the issue of a Proclamation for the new Parliament is to be deemed to have taken place before the Prorogation, or whether it is going to take place after the Prorogation, and whether Her Most Gracious Majesty was given adequate information to consult on this difficult constitutional position with her advisers in the Antipodes?
§ LORD GARDINERMy Lords, having regard to the increasing difficulties which firms, societies and individuals are having in getting anything from their printers, are the Lord Chancellor's Office and the returning officers in a position to conduct an Election?
§ THE LORD CHANCELLOR (LORD HAILSHAM OF SAINT MARYLERONE)My Lords, regarding the question about the Lord Chancellor's Office, I made inquiries about the necessary printing, and I have some reason to think that everything is 910 in order, although I am not sure that I have Ministerial responsibility for it. I think there is a statutory responsibility upon the Clerk to the Crown. I made inquiries some days ago as to the state of readiness and I believe that it is all right.
§ LORD WINDLESHAMMy Lords, the procedures which have been followed by the Prime Minister in announcing an Election follow closely established precedent. Precedents have been looked into and the noble Lord can be sure that Her Majesty's constitutional position was properly taken into account. As I have said, Parliament will be Prorogued to-morrow. It is proposed that after we have completed our Business there shall be a period of adjournment during pleasure, after which Prorogation will take place. The Proclamation about which we were speaking just now relates to the State of Emergency and not to the Prorogation of Parliament.
§ LORD GEORGE-BROWNMy Lords, may I ask the Minister, since so many of us are more concerned with the state of the nation than we are with the state of the Parties, whether he is aware that Mr. Gormley has said that he thinks the strike of the miners should be postponed? He has declared it to be his personal opinion and he has given a lead. May I therefore ask the Minister whether the Government have made any response to this?
§ LORD WINDLESHAMMy Lords, I understand that the Prime Minister has been in touch with Mr. Gormley to-day informing him of his decision to ask the Queen for a Dissolution of Parliament and a General Election, and asking the Executive Committee of the National Union of Mineworkers, in the national interest, very seriously to consider suspending the national coal strike during the period of the Election campaign. If I am to gather from what the noble Lord, Lord George-Brown, has said that Mr. Gormley has responded favourably to that request then I regard it as good news indeed.
§ LORD GEORGE-BROWNNo, my Lords, it is not favourably to them. May 911 I ask, is not that the problem? Whenever the mineworkers, or anybody else, move, the present Government claim it is as a response to them. Could they not respond to what Mr. Gormley has said, and could they not—and I am still asking—say to Mr. Gormley, "Is it five pennies or ten pennies? Where could we settle?" I am still asking the noble Lord: does he realise that, once a division of the country is started upon, neither he nor I knows where it will end? Would he not—and I am still asking interrogatively—be wiser to find out where he could settle to-night?
§ LORD WINDLESHAMMy Lords, with the greatest possible respect to the noble Lord, Lord George-Brown, we are on a Business Statement. We are talking about the rearrangement of Business before this House to-day—and the Government have proposed certain changes—and to-morrow. The noble Lord the Leader of this Opposition said, in his opening remarks, very rightly and very wisely, that it is not the custom of this House to start fighting an Election campaign in this House on an occasion of this kind. We had a full debate yesterday, and it really would be appropriate to leave this issue and not to pursue the rights and wrongs of the miners' dispute in discussing a Business Statement in the House of Lords when an Election has just been announced.
SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS: Hear, hear!
§ LORD BLYTONMy Lords, as one who is closely connected with the miners' union would the House suffer with me when I say that if Joe Gormley has said this then I heartilly agree with him. But it is his private opinion, and this decision must be made by the Executive Committee and not by the President himself. May I go further, and say that there is an opinion held that if the strike is postponed for the Election we may be charged with fighting a political rather than a wages issue?
§ LORD WINDLESHAMMy Lords, I must repeat again that I do not see the connection between the dispute with the National Union of Mineworkers and the Business of the House.
§ LORD GEORGE-BROWNDon't be so silly!
§ LORD WINDLESHAMI ask the noble Lord, Lord George-Brown, to respect the traditions of this House.
SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS: Hear, hear!
§ LORD HALEMy Lords, may I say that the Leader of the House may have misunderstood me and I therefore desire to correct that. I knew the Proclamation he referred to was the Proclamation of Emergency and I wondered why he said that they were going to make it if they had not yet made up their mind whether or not the Emergency was to be suspended. The Proclamation I specifically referred to was the Proclamation for the summoning of a new Parliament which, according to the Representation of of the People Act, 1949, must be made at least 17 clear days, excluding Sundays and Bank Holidays, before Polling Day. Therefore, rather reluctantly, I was almost being helpful to the Government in suggesting that it might be as well to know whether the rather unusual course was taken of having issued a Proclamation summoning the new Parliament now, or whether that did not have to wait until after the Prorogation?
§ LORD WINDLESHAMMy Lords, my understanding is that it does have to wait until after the Prorogation, as the noble Lord says.
§ LORD GEORGE-BROWNMy Lords, since the noble Lord, Lord Windlesham, rebuked me, may I just say to him that offending the traditions of this House is not what people outside this House are bothering about. Would he not ask his senior colleagues to pick up what is quite clearly an olive branch? If I offend the traditions of this House by pushing it, then I offend the traditions of this House. Mr. Gormley is trying exceedingly hard not to get a confrontation. Are Ministers so determined to get it that they will argue with me about the traditions of this House? Why do not Ministers—and I ask the noble Lord, Lord Windlesham, so experienced, such an industrialist, why does not he go round to Mr. Gormley and say, "Brother, can we not settle this before we get into awful bloody trouble"?
§ LORD WINDLESHAMMy Lords, I was not talking about people outside this House; I was talking to Peers inside this House.
§ LORD GEORGE-BROWNOh well! … Who cares?