§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what is their view of the report of the European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms on complaints by Asians from East Africa of the refusal of citizenship rights, and subsequent treatment, when they hold British passports.
THE MINISTER OF STATE, HOME OFFICE (VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSS)My Lords, so far as the Government are aware, the Commission have not yet adopted a report covering these cases.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, is the noble Viscount aware that I am a little surprised by that Answer? Is it not the case that a Report was issued in May; that there was no agreement between Her Majesty's Government and the Commission and that it is to be presented to the Council of Ministers in December?
VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSSMy Lords, one has to take account of the machinery on these Treaties, and what happens is that if there is a complaint about a violation of the Convention and no friendly settlement has been reached between the parties, the Commission report to the Committee of Ministers on its opinion whether there has been a breach of the Convention and sends a copy to the State concerned. Unless that is then referred to the European 892 Court of Human Rights within three months, either by the Council of Ministers or by the State concerned, the Committee of Ministers decide whether or not there has been a breach of the Convention. We have not yet got to the beginning of that stage.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, is not exactly what I said? Is it not a very different impression from the first Answer which the Minister gave? May I ask him whether Parliament will have the opportunity to discuss this disagreement before a definite conclusion is reached?
VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSSNo, my Lords; what I have said is not different from my first Answer. I described the machinery in my answer to the noble Lord's supplementary question, and my original Answer was that the Commission have not yet adopted a Report—
§ LORD BROCKWAY"Adopted"?
VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSSAdopted a Report. That is the current situation. As to whether or not Parliament will be involved, I should think they certainly will not until one has reached the stage of deciding whether to refer the matter to the European Court, and we are well away from that at the moment. I am not sure whether even at that stage it is apposite for Parliament to intervene in a particular case.
§ LORD WADEMy Lords, may I ask a general question arising out of these questions and answers? While there may be room for legal argument about whether the European Convention does or does not override legislation passed in this country, would the noble Viscount agree that it is very undesirable that legislation should be passed and enforced in this country which contravenes the Convention on Human Rights, the European Convention?
VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSSMy Lord, it is very difficult to say whether that is more than a hypothetical proposition, because at the moment I do not think anybody has decided that any of our legislation does contravene a European Convention. If there were a ruling upon it and subsequently we sought to legisluate in contravention of 893 that ruling, without any doubt it would be raised with Parliament. But as neither of these things has happened yet I do not think that I can help the noble Lord, Lord Wade, on this hypothesis.