HL Deb 21 May 1973 vol 342 cc962-4

2.41 p.m.

LORD SHINWELL

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether information on nuclear defence, hitherto regarded as secret, is to be released to the French Government.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR DEFENCE (LORD CARRINGTON)

No, my Lords.

LORD SHINWELL

My Lords, may I ask the Minister whether lie has read in the Press recently a statement, credited to President Nixon, that he advised the British Government to enter into negotiations with the French Government on nuclear defence whether any representations have been received from the American Government; and, finally, would he give an assurance that in the event of the United Kingdom Government agreeing to enter into negotiations with the French Government on this very important subject, no definite action will be taken until your Lordships' House has an opportunity of debating the matter?

LORD CARRINGTON

My Lords, the answer to the first question is, "Yes"; to the second, "No"; and to the third, that it is hypothetical.

LORD SHINWELL

My Lords, I excuse the noble Lord's frivolity. I should not have thought that this was a question which justified frivolity. This is a very serious question and I take a very serious view of the matter. However, may I ask him whether, if his reply to the first part of my question (whether a statement has appeared in the Press along the lines I indicated, namely, that President Nixon advised that there should be such negotiations) is, "Yes", anything has resulted from what he read in the Press?

LORD CARRINGTON

My Lords, I did not know that it was frivolous to answer, "Yes", "No", and then, "It is hypothetical". If it is, I apologise. The answer to the question which the noble Lord has just asked me is that I have made it plain on a number of occasions in this House that any co-operative link on nuclear matters with the French is a long time in the future and therefore his question does not arise.

LORD SHINWELL

My Lords, why does the Minister regard the third part of my question as hypothetical? After all, is it not permissible in your Lordships' House, on a matter of this sort which is so vital to the interests of our country, and indeed to the world at large, to ask that there should be an assurance that in the event of such negotiations being in contemplation your Lordships' House should at any rate have an opportunity of debating them? What is hypothetical about that?

LORD CARRINGTON

My Lords, because Her Majesty's Government have not decided to do anything of the sort. Should Her Majesty's Government decide to negotiate with the French then it is a matter for Her Majesty's Government to decide how, when and whether to consult your Lordships.

LORD SHINWELL

My Lords, is the Minister aware that I have been long enough in this business to know that it is a matter for the Government to come to a decision? Of course it is. But surely it is proper in the circumstances that both Houses of Parliament should be consulted before a major decision of this kind is taken? May I have an answer to that question?

LORD CARRINGTON

My Lords, I have already answered the noble Lord that there is no decision to do this, and therefore the question is hypothetical.