HL Deb 22 March 1973 vol 340 cc858-60

3.9 p.m.

LORD GARDINER

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government why, in paragraph 26 of the White Paper Employment and Training: Government Proposals, it is stated that the Secretary of State will continue to promote the policy of equal employment opportunity for workers regardless of race, colour and origin but makes no reference to non-discrimination on the ground of sex.

THE EARL OF GOWRIE

My Lords, the Government are opposed to discrimination based on prejudice in employment on grounds of sex. Paragraph 26 of the White Paper deals exclusively with existing legislation concerning employment opportunities and complaints under the Race Relations Act 1968. It would therefore be inappropriate to make reference in the paragraph to non-discrimination on the grounds of sex.

LORD GARDINER

My Lords, I thank the noble Earl for that Answer. May I ask whether he is aware that the Select Committee in this House on the Antidiscrimination Bill has had massive evidence of discrimination against women which exists both in employment and also in training? Is it not very odd that paragraph 24 of this White Paper shows that the Minister of Employment will remain responsible in relation to the employment of women for policy", but nowhere states what that policy is to be? Can the noble Earl assure the House that it will be a policy to end such discrimination?

THE EARL OF GOWRIE

My Lords, I think I can give the noble and learned Lord that assurance. As I have said, the Government are opposed to discrimination of this kind. They recognise that inequality between men and women exists in many fields of employment, and the Department of Employment is therefore carrying out a detailed study of the problems encountered by women in securing equal treatment with men in the whole field of employment and training. As to the Select Committee of this House of which the noble and learned Lord is a distinguished Member, the Government have said they will take account of the evidence submitted to the Committees of both Houses and of their Reports in determining future action.

BARONESS STOCKS

My Lords, have the Minister and the Government considered that, should a policy of anti sex discrimination be adopted, it might be very embarrassing for the right reverent Prelates on the Episcopal Bench, in view of the fact that the Church of England at present exercises a bar on the ministry of women, which I gather will remain effective until 1974, and at present possibly applies to training for ordination?

THE EARL OF GOWRIE

My Lords, I am sure that the House will be aware that there are three right reverend Prelates present, and I am sure they will take note of what the noble Baroness has said.

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, is the noble Earl aware of the fact that the Prelates are past hope?

THE EARL OF GOWRIE

My Lords, I am not quite sure whether that is a question for the Government.

THE LORD BISHOP OF WAKEFIELD

My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that at the theological college in my own particular See we already have women among the students?

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that he must not believe that? They certainly have women in subordinate positions, but not women on equal standing with men, because the Church regards them as very inferior creatures.

LORD HAWKE

My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that the third Estates Commissioner of the Church Commissioners is a woman?

THE EARL OF GOWRIE

Yes, my Lords.