§ LORD O'HAGANMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are aware that sewage sludge used as fertiliser sometimes contains dangerous substances.
§ THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE, DEPARTMENT OF THE ENVIRONMENT (LORD SANDFORD)Yes, my Lords, I was aware of that, but the substances in question are dangerous only in high concentrations, and the sludge only if it is used in excessive quantities. Guidance is available to sewage disposal authorities, and also to farmers through the Agricultural Development Advisory Service, on this whole subject.
§ LORD O'HAGANMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the process used in the sewage farms tends to concentrate highly dangerous toxic metals? Also, can he say what steps the Government are taking to ensure that land which has been covered with these dangerous metals is not later used for housing sites?
§ LORD SANDFORDYes, my Lords. But that is a point which does not quite arise from the Question, which related to the use of sludge for fertilisers. If the noble Lord would care to put down another Question about sludge being used without any of the precautions that are taken when it is used as fertiliser, I shall be glad to answer it.
§ LORD O'HAGANMy Lords, may I repeat my question so that the connection is a little clearer? Does the noble 522 Lord not see that if sludge is used as fertiliser on land which is agricultural at the time, but which is later used for housing, there might be a danger to children and to others using that land, because of the metals in the land?
§ LORD SANDFORDMy Lords, I can see that there might be a danger, and, particularly, that there would be if a mistake had been made. But I think that the caution that is exercised before sludge is approved to be used as a fertiliser would ensure that it was not harmful to children in those circumstances.
§ LORD DOUGLAS OF BARLOCHMy Lords, would it not be better to exercise caution in order to prevent toxic substances being in the sludge?
§ LORD SANDFORDMy Lords, I am not quite sure that I heard the whole of the noble Lord's question, but precautions are taken at two points: first of all, by the sewage disposal authorities in the quality of the effluent which they allow to be discharged to their sewage works by the industrial companies concerned; and, secondly, in the advice given by the Agricultural Development Advisory Service to farmers.
LORD NUNBURNHOLMEMy Lords, is it not a fact that before sending the sludge out as fertiliser the sewage authorities boil it, and does not this get rid of the dangerous substances?
§ LORD SANDFORDNo, my Lords. I do not think that is practicable.
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, will the noble Lord say whether there is a penalty attached to the use of sludge in dangerous amounts?
§ LORD SANDFORDNot in these circumstances, my Lords. But there are penalties attached to the improper disposal of sludge to land and to water.
§ LORD DOUGLAS OF BARLOCHMy Lords, are there penalties against putting toxic substances into the sewers?
§ LORD SANDFORDMy Lords, again I am not sure whether I heard the noble Lord correctly, but there are a variety of sources. There is the industrial effluent which is subject to the controls about which I have just been speaking, and there is the domestic effluent which is much harder to control.