§ 3.10 p.m.
§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether the meeting held in Paris on Wednesday last, February 28, reached any agreement on a united European approach concerning new cheap air fares on the North Atlantic route; and whether they will make a statement on the position of those travellers booked to fly on April 1 next, the date new fares were expected to come into operation.
§ THE MINISTER WITHOUT PORTFOLIO (LORD DRUMALBYN)My Lords, in view of the absence of agreement on new cheap fares for the North Atlantic, European Governments have reached a common view in the European Civil Aviation Conference that the only sensible course of action is to continue with the existing fares during this summer up to October 31. British airlines will do their best for passengers who had booked provisionally at lower fares by offering them alternatives on the lines which I indicated in reply to the noble Baroness's Un-starred Question last night.
§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRYMy Lords, is the Minister aware that failure to secure agreement on the APEX system, the advanced purchase excursion fares, means that B.O.A.C. will lose £8 1282 million of their North Atlantic revenue over the next year? Concerning the latter part of my Question to-day, would the noble Lord confirm that B.O.A.C. have already taken 17,000 bookings under the APEX system for fares which they hoped to start on April 1?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, I am aware of the report that there were 17,000 APEX bookings to the United States of America, which I understand is about right. Although there will be difficulties, I understand that the airlines hope they will be able to cope with the great majority of the bookings. I should also like to tell the noble Baroness, because the matter was raised last night (I heard immediately after last night's debate), that we have initialled an arrangement with the United States authorities on advanced booking charters, which of course will ease the problem of providing passage for these people.
§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRYMy Lords, while thanking the Minister for that information, may I ask whether he is aware that there is a very serious aspect here, and a serious one for our own scheduled airlines? Would he not agree that British carriers have not the spare aircraft to carry charter flights, whereas the Americans have? Does this not therefore mean that the American airlines will take the cream of the low fares?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, it is up to the British airlines themselves to arrange to the best of their ability for the carriage of these 17,000 people. What I am saying is that, among other means, they will now be able to use advanced booking charters for that purpose.
I have already informed the noble Baroness that, according to my information, B.O.A.C. expect that they will be able to carry the great majority of people who have made provisional bookings.
§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRYMy Lords, I am sorry, but I was not referring to the 17,000 passengers. Is the noble Lord aware that I am referring to the new A.B.C. arrangements? I am saying that the British carriers do not have the spare aircraft to deal with these charter flights, and these will therefore be carried by American airlines.
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, it is true that the Americans have surplus capacity; and indeed this is their great worry at the present time. We have all been trying, to arrange for these advanced booking charters, and we can rejoice that at last this new system has been agreed which will remove the need for the old affinity arrangements.
§ LORD BALFOUR OF INCHRYEMy Lords—
§ BARONESS EMMET OF AMBERLEYMy Lords—
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, may I rise on a point of procedure? May I tell the noble Earl, who is unable to observe those behind him, that a number of noble Lords have been rising to speak on his side of the House but have not so far had an opportunity to ask questions.
THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (EARL JELLICOE)My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord. My noble friend Lord Balfour of Inchrye is one of those who are well up in the queue.
§ LORD BALFOUR OF INCHRYEMy Lords, I shall be brief. Would the Government look favourably upon any scheme whereby those who are deprived of low fares across the Atlantic are taken to an airport on the Canadian border, with the assent of the British and Canadian Governments, and then transferred over the border to the United States?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, the position is that the advanced booking charter scheme has already been agreed upon with Canada, the Carribean and the North part of South America. An arrangement has now been initialled with the United States of America so that the same charter arrangements apply now for all of the North Atlantic area. The scheduled services are of course unaffected.
§ BARONESS EMMET OF AMBERLEYMy Lords, may I ask the Minister whether, in view of the fact that the Committee has been unable to reach a 1284 decision for a very long time now, the practically totally male commitee might resign and we might have a new committee with some ladies on board? The noble Baroness opposite (whom I like to call my friend) should be made chairman, and this might settle the difficulties quickly.
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, I am not certain which committee my noble friend refers to. I am quite certain that the whole House is indebted to the noble Baroness for raising these questions and keeping the House informed.
§ LORD O'NEILL OF THE MAINEMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord to repeat what he said to a very "thin" House last night? May I ask him to say that the Government will continue to fight this American obstructionism?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, if my noble friend is referring to the fact that we have not yet reached agreement on the scheduled fares, I must say to him that it is not only the Americans who disagree with us on these matters.
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that there is another point of view from that which is put so often in this House; namely, that the organisations concerned in this country, having resisted any reduction in fare levels for so long, have now gone to the opposite extreme? If they had not tried to get such low fares they might have had agreement by now.
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, I know that there are differences of opinion about this issue, and I take note of what the noble Lord says.