§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will encourage the Associated States of Grenada, St. Vincent, St. Lucia, Dominica, Antigua and St. Kitts to confer with a view to forming a Federation or Federations with independent status.
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, Her Majesty's Government have informed the Premiers of the Associated States of Grenada, St. Vincent, St. Lucia, Dominica, Antigua and St. Kitts-Nevis-Anguilla that they do not wish to stand in the way of any constructive contribution to regional co-operation in the Caribbean.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, while thanking the noble Baroness, is it not desirable that Her Majesty's Government should do rather more than that? Is it not the case that administration over many of these islands is breaking down because of inter-island conflict, racial tension, the Black Power movement, bankruptcy of Governments, and very heavy unemployment? Is it not desirable that Her Majesty's Government should not merely express good will but actively encourage a conference to deal with these problems which are making viability and stable democracy absolutely impossible?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, experience has shown that if any move for closer and more formal regional groupings are to be successful it must be started by the States concerned.
§ BARONESS GAITSKELLMy Lords, may I ask the noble Baroness if these small countries want a federation themselves?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, this is entirely a matter for the States and the countries concerned. It is under consideration.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, did the noble Baroness note that I used the word "encourage"? I am well aware of their sensitivity in this matter. In view of the fact that we are still responsible for the defence and foreign affairs of these Associated States, and the way in which we got rid of the referendum procedure in Granada, does it mean that Her Majesty's Government will now stand aside and let these scattered islands get into a deplorable state?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, certainly not. We have certain responsibilities for these islands. In 1972–73 £6.4 million was given in aid to the Associated States, and in this year the sum will rise to £7.3 million, plus £1 million for technical assistance, but it is really for the States themselves to initiate discussions.
§ LORD REIGATEMy Lords, would the noble Baroness not agree that Her Majesty's Governments successively for the last 30 years have tried to form a federation, nearly all of which attempts—alas!—have failed, and that the only surviving unitary organisation in this part of the world is the Caribbean Free Trade Area, which could be built on, but that interference from London is much resented by some people out there?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, I quite agree.
§ LORD SLATERMy Lords, is the Minister aware, following the supplementary question to which she has just replied, that many of us hoped that the Federation, so far as the West Indies was concerned, in the first place, would be a success? Yet it broke down. Who can tell whether history may not repeat itself in this instance, unless the people themselves are most desirous of having such a Federation and are able to live amicably together?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OP BELHELVIEMy Lords, once again I would agree with the noble Lord. I was lucky enough to be a member of the Parliamentary delegation which studied the Federation in the West Indies which, 2184 as we know, subsequently broke down. I think we all agree that it is for the States to agree among themselves in the first instance.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, while sympathising very much with my noble friend's intention in this Question, and recognising the truth of what the noble Lord, Lord Reigate, has said, and also recognising the amount of aid that the British Government are giving to the area, I wonder whether the Government should not give further consideration in their administration of aid in the direction of closer trading connections and also the ability to move goods and services between the various islands—in other words, developing the economic and trading organisations of the Caribbean and in particular the small countries. This is perhaps the only way in which unity within the Caribbean can be found.
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, it is in order to try to encourage trade that the amount given has risen by almost £1 million. On top of that we are giving £1 million in technical assistance.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, could the noble Lady say what assistance has been given to the Federal Shipping Company (I think it is), so that there can be a much easier flow of goods between the various islands?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, not in detail without notice, but I will write to the noble Lord.
VISCOUNT ST. DAVIDSMy Lords, can any move be made to get Canada associated with any talks which are going on? In the matter of mutual trade between the islands, the trouble is that they all make the same things and are therefore bad trading partners. But they make things which Canada needs and Canada makes things which they need. She would be a much more valuable trading partner to the Caribbean than possibly even we should.
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, if there were any question of federation of the Associated States with any independent Commonwealth country, such as Canada, it would really be a matter for the States 2185 and the countries concerned. But the West Indies Act 1967 does give the Associated States the authority to proceed to independence in this way if they so wish.
§ LORD STRANGEMy Lords, would the noble Baroness not agree that some islands—St. Lucia, for example—have taken the matter into their own hands? It is the woman's island. The women are virtually running the island. They refuse to have elevators in to carry the bananas they prefer to carry them on their heads. Furthermore, when they put them in cardboard boxes they got extra prices for carrying the cardboard boxes, and they managed to carry two on their heads and run between each load. Would she not agree that they are trying to make a success of the island on their own?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, I agree that there are certain technical difficulties, as described by the noble Lord, but the Associated States are trying to improve their economies.