HL Deb 27 June 1973 vol 343 cc1980-5

3.12 p.m.

BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRY

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, as B.O.A.C. intend to retain the check-in service at their air terminal in Buckingham Palace Road believing this to be of value to customers, and as the number of passengers using similar facilities at the B.E.A. West London Air Terminal in Gloucester Road is in excess of one million, they will recommend that consideration be given to amalgamating the two check-in services at the West London Air Terminal seeing that the two airlines are now grouped together as British Airways.

THE MINISTER WITHOUT PORTFOLIO (LORD DRUMALBYN)

My Lords, I shall gladly draw the attention of the British Airways Board to the noble Baroness's suggestion, but it is essentially for the Board to decide whether such arrangements would be practicable and desirable.

BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRY

My Lords, why is it that this Government are adamant in refusing any help to consumers at all in this very long-drawn-out affair? Does the Minister remember that the decision to withdraw the check-in facilities at Gloucester Road was a unilateral one of B.E.A.? Does he recall that from that Front Bench, that Government Bench, travellers were guaranteed that their buses would catch the planes? Does he recall that when B.E.A. withdrew that guarantee they created a false impression in saying that the reason was the delayed flights owing to the late arrival of buses, and that I proved this false both in this House by statement and in writing? Finally, at this moment, might I ask the Minister whether he knows that the B.E.A. management at present are creating the impression that no check-in service exists at Gloucester Road, so that when we do get an inquiry the numbers will show a substantial drop? And, as the Minister, Lord Drumalbyn, leads in this House on the Fair Trading Bill, in that capacity alone does he condone such dishonest tactics?

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, the noble Baroness in the guise of questions has made one or two assertions. One piece of evidence does not prove a case. On the main question that she asked, this is clearly a matter for the Corporation to decide, and the Government are satisfied that before B.E.A. reached their decision about the West London Air Terminal they carefully considered what would be in the best interests of their passengers as a whole. They have tried to balance the interests of the minority who check in at the West London Air Terminal against the interests of the majority who do not.

LORD SHEPHERD

My Lords, is there not another Authority that ought to be consulted, the Airports Authority? Would the noble Lord remember what he said in yesterday's debate about the appalling congestion at Heathrow? Would the noble Lord also not agree that congestion occurs at the check-in centre at Heathrow? And would the noble Lord not agree that, if there is to be this further increase in numbers because those who now check in at Gloucester Road will do so at Heathow, what is a bad position will be made quite deplorable?

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, as the noble Lord will be aware, this matter has been examined by METRA and the British Airports Authority are satisfied that they will be able to cater for B.E.A. passengers who decide to go direct to London Airport.

BARONESS EMMET OF AMBERLEY

My Lords, may I ask the Minister whether he is aware that it would be of very great convenience to all air travellers if B.E.A. and B.O.A.C. proceeded from the same place, that is to say the B.O.A.C. Terminal near Victoria Station and the bus routes; that there is ample room behind the B.O.A.C. building to spread over the Southern Railway at Victoria Station, and that this really would be an admirable solution for everybody?

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, that is a slightly different suggestion from the one that is put in the Question, which was that the B.E.A. West London Air Terminal at Gloucester Road should be used. I think it is a suggestion that has already been examined, but I shall again convey what my noble friend has said.

BARONESS EMMET OF AMBERLEY

My Lords, while thanking the Minister for that answer may I add this? It has perhaps been studied but not sufficiently studied, and if Gloucester Road is to remain simply as a collecting point (and not for luggage), really could this question be considered again, as the two services are going to be amalgamated? As I said, with the railway, the buses and everything together it would be a very great help.

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, I shall certainly convey that suggestion, but I must repeat that it is a matter for the B.A.B. to decide.

LORD SLATER

My Lords, would the Minister agree from the statement he has made that if Gloucester Road ceases to be a checking-in point everything will depend upon passengers getting to Heathrow in the first place? If such is the case then it is absolutely shocking because the people who travel—

SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS

Question!

LORD SLATER

Is the Minister aware—I get fed up with some of these interjections—

SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS

Order!

LORD SLATER

Well, my Lords, I will catch some of these people out some of these days. Is the Minister aware that the people who travel abroad belong not only to the Metropolis or the surrounding area but come from all over the British Isles, and they use Gloucester Road as the point of departure to catch their planes at Heathrow? Therefore, further consideration ought to be given to this matter because there is a form of transport—

SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS

Question!

LORD SLATER

Is the Minister aware that there is a picking-up point at Gloucester Road for passengers travelling from Heathrow Airport to the North?

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, these are all matters that have been taken into account by B.E.A. when they reached their decision. It is a matter for each airline to decide how far and on what conditions it provides services for its customers over and above its statutory duties and functions.

BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRY

My Lords, might I ask the Minister whether he is aware that the METRA Report stated quite categorically that they had not been able to consider suggested closure of the West London Air Terminal check-in facilities as this was outside their terms of reference? So he was in error there. May I ask him, furthermore, whether he is aware that I received the new B.E.A. News to-day, and their new marketing policy is "putting people first"? Now this has come at a very apt moment. So if we are going to put people first, might I ask the Minister whether, as there is to be a large increase in passengers, plus the use of larger aeroplanes such as the TriStar, he does not see that it would greatly facilitate and ease the burden at Heathrow if we had a town terminal, besides offering a better service to passengers everywhere?

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, with regard to the second part of the question, this is a matter that the Board has to weigh up for itself; it is not a question of what I see or do not see. As to the paper that the noble Baroness held up in her hand, what we are really considering here is whether some people can be put more first than others.

LORD MOYNE

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that since Aer Lingus began checking-in at Heathrow, the bus starts one and a half hours before the departure of the plane? Is this to be taken as any indication of the latitude of extra time necessitated and the length of time which will be necessary when checking-in is done only at the airport?

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, I take note of the point, but of course it will still be possible for people to go from the West London Air Terminal. The only point is that they will not check in there.

LADY RUTHVEN OF FREELAND

My Lords, may I ask the Minister whether he will put before the British Airways Board the very strong views held by this House? Then perhaps they will listen to us.

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, I am sure that the British Airways Board will take note of the feelings that have been expressed in the House to-day.

LORD O'NEILL OF THE MAINE

My Lords, is the Minister aware how wise I was to withdraw my Question, leaving it to the noble Baroness, Lady Burton of Coventry, on the other side of the House? And is the Minister aware that a Member of the other side of the House is criticicising a nationalised industry?

LORD LEATHERLAND

My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether, when he makes his next speech in favour of Maplin airport he will bear in mind all this evidence of discontent, inconvenience and delay associated with Heathrow?

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, obviously if a facility that exists is withdrawn people are going to be discontented about it; but the British Airways Board have to consider the situation as affecting all their customers and the efficiency of the running of their own services.

LORD DAVIES OF LEEK

My Lords, finally, is the noble Lord aware—drawing his attention to this crush—that when the Channel Tunnel is built it will be worse still?

LORD GORE-BOOTH

My Lords, may I put this in one other way, for the noble Lord to refer to the appropriate authority? If I have followed recent debates rightly we have a situation now where there is booking at the West London terminal; there will then be a situation where there is a blank; there will then be a railway which hesitates to go into the prairies beyond Hounslow and certainly to pay very much attention to air passengers. Would not the noble Lord agree that all the dynamic and public spirited people engaged in this situation should be able to produce a more coherent result than we have at present?

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, I am sure this is just the sort of thing that the British Airways Board will set out to do.

BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRY

My Lords, it does not do it. Will the Minister tell the House quite simply, if B.O.A.C. are to continue their check-in facilities, as has been stated, because they think these are valuable to passengers, what in the world (except red tape) is to prevent both airlines, as they are now British Airways, having the same town terminal?

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, at the present time probably accommodation; but this is a matter for the two executive bodies to decide between themselves.