§ 11.21 a.m.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are aware of the public statements which have been made that El Fatah, the Palestine Liberation Organisation and kindred movements are actively engaged in the promotion of terrorist action throughout the world; and what steps they propose to take to ensure that branches of these movements or their agents or groups of their members shall not be tolerated in Britain.
THE MINISTER OF STATE, HOME OFFICE (VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSS)My Lords, I do not know what particular statements the noble Lord has in mind. But my right honourable friend the Home Secretary has made it clear in another place, and I myself have several times made it clear in your Lordships' House, that he will not hesitate to use to the full his powers to keep out or to expel any alien who seems likely to 1937 engage in acts of violence or to encourage or incite such acts.
LORD JANNERMy Lords, is the noble Viscount aware that there was very great publicity given by the Sunday Telegraph to particulars of an appalling nature relating to the participation of El Fatah and other organisations in the conspiracies that are taking place to create violence and acts of terrorism, and to continue what I have already described, to help this cancer which is growing on civilisation? Does not the noble Viscount think that very careful attention should be paid to those who are conspiring in this country, as part and parcel of organisations which have been exposed time after time as participating in these conspiracies, and that something should be done about them? May I further ask the noble Viscount whether his attention has been drawn to the case of the Director of Public Prosecutions v. Doot and Others, which was an appeal heard in this House, in respect of conspiracy charges in relation to matters which were arranged first of all abroad, and with the help of people in this country? And will he please see to it that something definite is done to stop these villainous persons, these criminally-minded persons, from carrying on their activities?
VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSSMy Lords, I think the Government have made it plain, not only to those in this country but to Governments abroad, that we utterly abhor this sort of violent approach, these acts of terrorism, and we certainly condemn them as strongly as we possibly can. The noble Lord said that there are people conspiring in this country. If that is so, they are subject to the criminal law in the same way as anybody else. If the noble Lord can inform me of the details of this conspiracy, I shall certainly see that they are passed on to the police, who are in charge of prosecutions. This is the way we operate, quite apart from the powers of my right honourable friend to deal with aliens. As to the case to which the noble Lord referred, I am afraid I have not read it, but I certainly will do so and see whether it gives us extra powers; but I think in fact the law as it is does give us very strong powers.
LORD JANNERMy Lords, while appreciating and thanking the noble Viscount for that answer, is it not perfectly clear, if people here are prepared to say that they are part and parcel of organisations which are carrying out these terrible activities, that they themselves are admitting, by being members of these organisations, that they are participating, either directly or indirectly, in their work? Will the noble Viscount see to it that proper investigation is made into the activities of those who openly declare themselves to be members of the organisations?
VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSSMy Lords, I think to answer a question on the hypothesis that somebody may have said something, when we are dealing with matters that could be criminal in nature, would be very dangerous. I think one ought to be specific and look at the particular case concerned. As to doing something about it, while I think it would be quite wrong for me to go into the details of what is being done, does not the noble Lord understand that when my right honourable friend says that he will not fail to use his powers to expel aliens he means it? He has got this fear very much in his mind. I do not think I can go into the details.
§ BARONESS GAITSKELLMy Lords, may I ask the Minister whether he is aware that when I was a delegate at the United Nations, though I constantly defended the free and democratic right of organisations, I was always instructed to add that these organisations were not allowed to be formed if they incited people to violence? I should like to ask the Minister how many more Jumbo-jets are going to be blown up before the Government realise that El Fatah is an organisation which incites to violence?
VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSSMy Lords, so far as I understand, the connection between the blowing up of the latest Jumbo-jet and El Fatah is very far from established; I certainly should not like to endorse that there is a connection, because I genuinely do not know. But the noble Baroness is quite right; we do have a check and a balance here. We have certain freedoms and we must see that they are not abused. 1939 But we work at the moment on individuals and not on organisations. This is how we have always done it in this country, and this is the way my right honourable friend at the moment thinks he can keep the matter under control.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, arising out of these replies, and in view of the serious loss of life, white as well as black, which is occurring in all parts of the world, particularly in Southern Africa, could the Government use their widespread intelligence services to learn to what extent these massive funds for such terrorism come from charity organisations in this country, of a character similar to the Rowntree Trust or the English section of the World Council of Churches?
VISCOUNT COLVILLE of CULROSSMy Lords, I know that one can go very wide in your Lordships' House at Question Time, but I think that really is another question.
LORD JANNERMy Lords, would your Lordships permit me one further question? Is the noble Viscount saying that if a person openly admits that he is a member of Murder Incorporated or of a society—a matter that has been raised in this House—which has as its object promoting cholera or a similar disease in this country, that person would be allowed to be such a member without being prosecuted?
VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSSMy Lords, it is not an offence to belong to an organisation. What I am saying is that there is criminal law in this country which bites specifically upon acts of individual people. I really think it is most dangerous to hypothesise on a notional situation of this sort and try to get the Government to say, yes or no, this is a criminal offence. It is for the police to prosecute, and it is for the courts to decide.
§ LORD WIGGMy Lords, would the noble Viscount bear in mind that it is written:
As a man sows so shall he reap"?The terrorism being perpetrated to-day by the Palestinians has its origin in some of the acts which led to the establishment of the State of Israel, and at this time of year particularly it would be in 1940 the noble Viscount's mind because two British sergeants, Sergeants Martin and Paice, were hung in an orange grove outside Natanya and their bodies were booby-trapped by the same agencies which are complaining to-day.
VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSSMy Lords, that may or may not be so, but I am afraid that it really is another Question and it is not one I can answer to-day.