§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether the provisions for compulsory insurance of motor vehicles on British roads are fully applicable to commercial vehicles registered abroad; and whether such insurance is effected with insurance companies approved by the Department of Trade and Industry and provides a cover not capable of invalidation by the vehicle being used in a defective condition, whether the defect be latent or not, or by the vehicle being over-loaded.
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, I must apologise for a rather lengthy Answer. The law on compulsory motor vehicle insurance is substantially the same for all motor vehicles using our roads. The major difference in practice is that visiting vehicles—whether private or commercial—may be insured under the internationally agreed system of green cards issued by their own insurers instead of by a policy issued by a British insurer. A green card gives insurance cover to the extent required by the law of the country visited. It is a provision of our law, which applies equally to green card insurance, that compulsory insurance cannot be invalidated so far as a third party is concerned by conditions in policies relating, inter alia, to the conditions of the vehicle or the weight or physical characteristics of the load. Apart from this, arrangements exist with Motor Insurers' Bureaux under which payment of any liability which is com 628 pulsorily insurable is guaranteed if for any reason the relevant insurance is ineffective or non-existent.
§ LORD HALEMy Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that comprehensive Answer, I gather that it really means that the real answer to my Question is "No", and that victims have to go to their solicitors to try to find out, through a long and arduous process—made much more difficult, of course, because the lorry may have come from one of the more distant countries—the position with regard to insurance, as to the cover and as to the company. Is this not a matter at which the noble Lord might look again, to see whether the protection is as adequate as it could possibly be and that Her Majesty's subjects will have some additional protection when using Her Majesty's roads?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, with very great respect to the noble Lord, his initial phrase that my answer meant, "No" is totally inaccurate. What I said (I will not repeat the lengthy Answer I gave him) is that the British Motor Insurers' Bureau are in alliance with the Motor Insurers' Bureaux abroad. The British Motor Insurers' Bureau undertake to repay any insurance liability; and they, in their turn, get it back from the Motor Insurers' Bureaux abroad. There is no question of anybody in Britain having to go hunting round Continental countries.
§ LORD OAKSHOTTMy Lords, I wonder whether my noble friend could say what is the significance of a report in the papers this morning, if it is true, that this country has now come into line with regard to green card insurance with the other six countries—Benelux, France, Germany and Italy—of the old Common Market.
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, what my noble friend Lord Oakshott says is true. On January 1, 1974, the green card will be abolished for E.E.C. members because all E.E.C. countries will then have to be insured with each other. It will make little practical difference, except that we shall not be examining their green cards; but the Motor Insurers' Bureaux abroad then compulsorily have to meet any claim through our Motor Insurers' Bureau. If, 629 as the noble Lord, Lord Hale, fears, a Motor Insurers' Bureau abroad do not meet a claim at the moment, our Motor Insurers' Bureau will do so. After January 1 all will have to do it.
§ THE EARL OF ONSLOWMy Lords, how many vehicles are coming into this country from countries where third party motor insurance is not compulsory? Secondly, in that event the British taxpayer is presumably subsidising noninsured foreign motor cars.
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, my information is that third party personal liability is compulsory in all these countries.
§ LORD GARNSWORTHYMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord to state whether, as from January next, motorists entering this country will be checked to ascertain that they do have insurance cover of any kind?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, after January 1, 1974, any vehicle from a country outside the E.E.C. will be checked. Those from countries within the E.E.C. will not be checked, because the position will be exactly the same as for our vehicles going abroad; all the E.E.C. countries will have the same compulsory insurance.
§ LORD GARNSWORTHYMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord what the position of a third party will be in the event of a motorist coming from any of the E.E.C. countries not possessing insurance, as we know some people who drive motors cars in this country do not possess it?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, if that were the case, he would be in criminal default in his own country and the Motor Insurers' Bureau of his country would have to meet our motor insurance claim.
§ LORD BALFOUR OF INCHRYEMy Lords, in the event of legal action in the courts, would the remedy lie in suing the foreign insurance company or in suing the British insurance group that had guranteed the foreign insurance obligations?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, I am not clear whether the 630 noble Lord is asking about the position before or after January 1, next?
§ LORD GARNSWORTHYMy Lords, I wonder whether I could be of assistance, and ask the noble Lord to state what the position is up to January 1 and what the position is after January 1?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, I cannot do more than emphasise that the British Insurance Bureau at this moment undertake to cover everybody who has a claim. The Continental (E.E.C.) Motor Insurance Bureaux at this moment meet all claims automatically for our Motor Insurance Bureau for those who have a green card. After January 1, with or without a green card, they will compulsorily have to meet the E.E.C. claims. If there is a question of tracing an unknown rogue driver, that of course will be a question for enforcement of an order against persons unknown, which comes more under my right honourable and learned friend's Department.
§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords, does the noble Lord realise that what one wants to know is whether, where there is a heavy Continental vehicle coming into this country, carrying insurance or not, and inflicting damage on a British citizen, that British citizen has any means of redress?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, I can only repeat, for the umpteenth time, "Yes".
§ LORD HALEMy Lords, does the noble Lord recall how many British companies have been insolvent and unable to meet their claims? If I correctly recall, on one occasion, involving a very large firm, the British Insurance Bureau said that they could not meet the claims against that company. Will the noble Lord bear in mind that it is extremely difficult for a Man of Kent, or a Kentish Man, to plan the date of his death by accident before January 1, 1974?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, I cannot deal at the moment with what happened in the past, or at least I am not willing to deal with it, but what is happening now is all right.
§ LORD BALFOUR OF INCHRYEMy Lords, I apologise to the Minister for not 631 hearing his question to me. I meant of course if, after an accident, the aggrieved party went to law, against whom would his action lie?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, the insurance companies undertake liability. The British Motor Insurance Bureau will undertake any work that needs to be done in countries in the E.E.C., and also other foreign countries. There are many countries outside the E.E.C. which already have agreements with the Motor Insurance Bureau. Noble Lords do not need to worry about this point where personal liability is concerned.