HL Deb 06 December 1973 vol 347 cc756-8

3.16 p.m.

LORD BARNBY

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, in view of the heavy movement in terms of trade against the United Kingdom and the resultant trading advantage to the developing countries and their greatly increased earnings on exports (particularly raw materials and food to the United Kingdom) it is not now appropriate to review downwards our overall generosity in granting Overseas Aid.

EARL FERRERS

My Lords, while some of the developing countries have undoubtedly benefited from the recent rise in commodity prices, on the other hand some of the largest and poorest of them have been adversely affected, as we have, by higher prices which they have to pay for their essential imports, including oil and food. The general state of a developing country's economy is a major factor which is taken into account in decisions on the level and terms of aid to that country.

LORD BARNBY

My Lords, that is a disappointing reply. Would not my noble friend agree that in grave times, when our balance of payments is so massively adverse, when the external value of the pound is so weak, thus raising the cost of our imports, including food, and when Government Bonds are selling on the basis of a 12½ per cent. return, all items of overseas expenditure, such as £280 million a year on overseas aid and contributions to the United Nations of £52 million—I repeat, my Lords, £52 million—should be scrutinised and every possible economy made?

EARL FERRERS

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend that we have problems, but Her Majesty's Government do not believe that that fact should prevent this country from carrying out her international obligations. We believe it right that we should help the less privileged countries in their efforts to further their economic and social development.

THE LORD BISHOP OF ROCHESTER

My Lords, is the Minister aware that only last week a petition was presented to the Prime Minister indicating a continuing concern that British policy should reflect a generous attitude to the Third World, even at a time of our own economic crisis?

EARL FERRERS

My Lords, I am very grateful to the right reverend Prelate for putting forward that point of view. Indeed, that is precisely what Her Majesty's Government are trying to do.

LORD RHODES

My Lords, is it not a fact that the people of this country have the remedy for this problem in their own hands? Would not 10 per cent. more effort on the part of the country do the job within two years?

EARL FERRERS

My Lords, I am quite certain that if everyone in this country were to take the advice of the noble Lord, Lord Rhodes, it would make a very great difference to the general output of the economy.

LORD COLYTON

My Lords, do not the less privileged countries in the Middle East, and particularly the Persian Gulf, also have an obligation to help us to develop our own economic prosperity?

EARL FERRERS

My Lords, there are several countries in the Middle East which have indeed taken on their own obligations to other, less developed countries. Countries such as Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and Abu Dhabi, have already given financial assistance to other developing countries.

LORD WADE

My Lords, would the noble Earl agree that apart from the oil-exporting countries the gap between the developing and the so-called developed countries is still very great and that we must take a long view on this matter? Furthermore, if world prices of raw materials other than oil fall, as they may do in the coming years, would not the need for overseas aid be even greater, rather than diminished?

EARL FERRERS

My Lords, I agree that the gap is a wide one and is getting larger, but we believe it is right that we should undertake our international obligations to less developed countries. We believe, also, that it is in our own interests to do so, because if we promote development in those countries we shall encourage general world trade which would be to our advantage as well.

LORD LEATHERLAND

My Lords, does the noble Earl recall that a few moments ago he said that we had "problems", whereas the Prime Minister said that we have our "problems of success"? Is there any particular significance in the deletion of those last two words?

EARL FERRERS

Only, my Lords, that my expression was somewhat more succinct and less long.

LORD WALSTON

My Lords, is it not a fact that a large part of the benefit accruing from rising commodity prices does not go to the primary producers of the poorest countries, and that therefore it is somewhat misleading to look on this as being a reason for our reducing our aid to those countries?

EARL FERRERS

My Lords, it depends on the primary products which the countries are producing. Many of the countries which are recipients of our aid are those which are producing items which have not risen in price as much as other things.

THE EARL OF ARRAN

My Lords, would not the noble Earl agree that our obligations apply, if only morally, to the State of Israel as well?

EARL FERRERS

I do not believe, my Lords, that Israel comes under the heading of an underdeveloped country.