HL Deb 02 April 1973 vol 341 cc2-4

2.39 p.m.

LORD KENNET

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what are their proposals for the control of the international arms trade, with special reference to the reported sale of 80 armoured personnel carriers equipped with missiles to Uganda by France.

THE MINISTER OF STATE, FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE)

My Lords, Her Majesty's Government raised again the question of the control of the international arms trade on February 27 in the Conference of the Committee on Disarmament in Geneva. No specific proposals were made. The French Government have in any case said that there is no question of the sale of 80 armoured personnel carriers equipped with missiles to Uganda by France.

LORD KENNET

My Lords, it is difficult to question the Government about something which somebody else is doing, but can the noble Baroness say whether the formulation of her last sentence implies also that they are not going to sell, for instance, 60 armoured personnel carriers without missiles to Uganda, or anything like that? Or is it a genuine denial?

BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE

I understand, my Lords, that there is no question of any, not even one.

LORD SHINWELL

My Lords, does the noble Baroness suggest in her Answer that we must leave this matter of the international arms trade—which would become very serious indeed and will have very grave complications—to the international Conference in Geneva? What is to be done about the recent report about the sale to Kuwait of arms which were not intended for Kuwait but for some other Arabian country? What about the allegation—I cannot vouch for the truth of it, but perhaps the noble Baroness can—of the sale of arms by Libya which apparently are intended for the I.R.A.? What is to be done about that matter? Is it to be left to a conference and a lot of talk?

BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE

My Lords, I do not think that I can answer specific questions on arms control apart from the one relating to Uganda which is upon the Order Paper. I was asked about general international conferences on the subject. The real problem here is that there are two essential needs for any agreement to come about: that one should have the support of the recipient countries and of course also that of the major supplying countries.

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, would not the noble Baroness agree that these supplementary questions indicate the very great difficulty of political considerations in the supply of arms? Would the representative of Her Majesty's Government at Geneva propose that the export of arms should be limited to countries which have the endorsement of the United Nations or to the Peacekeeping Force of the United Nations itself?

BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE

My Lords, the only specific proposal under the United Nations was a Danish one in 1968. That suggested that the United Nations Secretary-General should be asked to find out the attitude of member Governments towards an obligation to register with the Secretary-General all imports and exports of conventional arms. Unfortunately, a number of arms-importing countries considered that they would be at a disadvantage and therefore the proposal had to be withdrawn.

LORD KENNET

My Lords, why did the Minister say that we must have the agreement of the recipient countries? Is that not like making the control of dangerous drugs dependent on the agreement of the addicts? Would it not be enough to have the agreement of the exporting countries?

BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE

My Lords, apparently not, for the reason I have just given.