HL Deb 26 October 1972 vol 335 cc2260-2

[No. 1.]

Clause 1, page 1, line 10, leave out from "amended" to end of line 19 and insert" by the insertion after subsection (2) of the following new subsections:— (2A) A local health authority in England and Wales may, with the approval of the Minister of Health, and to such extent as he may direct shall, make arrangements for the giving of advice on voluntary vasectomy, the medical examination of persons seeking advice on voluntary vasectomy for the purpose of determining what advice to give and for treatment for voluntary vasectomy. (2B) A local health authority may, with the approval of the Minister of Health, recover from persons to whom advice is given, or treatment provided, under subsection (2A) above or from such persons of any class or description such charges (if any) as the authority consider reasonable, having regard to the means of those persons.'

The Commons agreed to this Amendment, but proposed the following Amendments thereto:

[No. 2.]

Line 5, leave out "Minister of Health" and insert "Secretary of State".

[No. 3.]

Line 12, leave out "Minister of Health" and insert "Secretary of State".

LORD AMULREE

My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendments (Nos. 2 and 3) to the Lords Amendment (No. 1). These are purely drafting Amendments to substitute for "the Minister of Health" the words, "Secretary of State", and I think it would be for the convenience of your Lordships if we were to take the two Amendments together, as they are exactly the same.

Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendments.—(Lord Amulree.)

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, I want to make only one short comment, because I have no intention of delaying this Bill. It will be seen from the Amendment that vasectomy will be given but that the person who asks for and receives it will be subject to a means test. I would ask the Minister whether he could clear up this point at this stage. We have been told that local authorities throughout the country are now considering giving free birth control advice and are now providing the necessary equipment. Previously, this has not been the case. As vasectomy is one of the most reliable methods of birth control, may I ask that the means test which is suggested here can be removed and that vasectomy will be given free, just as other methods of birth control will be given free?

LORD AMULREE

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for her comments, but so far as I know the probability is that, although the local authority may recover the expenses, it is very unlikely that they would proceed to recover them in these cases. The intention is that as many people as possible should be given help free of charge.

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

But would not my noble friend agree with me that if a patient is persuaded by his doctor to have a vasectomy he will have it in his mind the whole time that the law says he will be subject to a means test? In my opinion, this may deter him. If finally the local authority does not take action against him, that will leave him feeling guilty, and he will feel that he has broken the law. Surely, it would be better and more conducive to his coming forward for this treatment if he knew that it were free.

On Question, Motion agreed to.