§ 11.7 a.m.
§ THE EARL OF KINNOULLMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they would confirm or deny recent Press reports that a future drastic reduction in branch railway lines is to be approved together with the phasing out of the grant aid to certain existing branch lines under the Transport Act, 1968.
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, unremunerative rail passenger services are kept under continual review. Their long-term future will be determined in the light of the general review of the railways mentioned yesterday by my right honourable friend.
§ THE EARL OF KINNOULLMy Lords, while thanking my noble friend for that Answer, I am not quite sure whether he has replied to the Question of whether the Press reports are valid.
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, without particular reference to which Press reports the noble Earl may be referring, it is difficult to do so. The long-term policy of the railways is to become efficient and economic. Yesterday's announcement, as my noble friend will know, dealt with the short-term situation. I do not think it would be fruitful for me to say anything more at the moment. My right honourable friend Mr. Peyton, in answer to a supplementary question yesterday, said that he hoped to get the Board's Report by the autumn. It is hoped that action will follow.
§ VISCOUNT HANWORTHMy Lords, in considering the long-term future of the railways, will the Minister bear in mind the overcrowding on the roads and the possibility that by closing lines we may indirectly be storing up extra trouble and cost of road transport?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, the noble Viscount is right. That is one of the environmental points at which my right honourable friend will be looking.
§ THE EARL OF KINNOULLMy Lords, can my noble friend advise me, first, of the current total cost to the Department of the Environment of grant aid to branch lines ; and, secondly, whether there have been any cases, despite the protestations of the Railways Board, the traffic commissioners and the local authority, that 1661 grant aid has been withdrawn from branch lines by the Department?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, I regret that I cannot give those figures at the moment. What was my noble friend's second point?
§ THE EARL OF KINNOULLMy Lords, it was whether any grant had been withdrawn.
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONNo, my Lords ; there have been no closures recently and, so far as I am aware, none is under consideration at this moment. The situation is as it is ; and there is nothing in the pipeline at the moment. In the autumn, when the long-term review is considered, my right honourable friend may take another view.
§ LORD SLATERMy Lords, can the noble Lord say what are the feelings of the Minister of Transport in regard to the announcement of further increases in passenger fares in the near future? If this should happen, how can we expect to get more traffic away from the main highways throughout the country and back to the railways—something which would be a great asset to the railways in their operation?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, it is one of the facts of life that prices go up. Some two-thirds of the railways' operating costs are attributable to labour. When the price of labour goes up, the extra cost must be met from somewhere.
§ LORD LEATHERLANDMy Lords, in view of the increase in British exports and the probable flood of imports into Britain which is likely to arise when we enter the Common Market, would it not be a mistake in the Government's view to close down any more of our railway lines?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, the Government are not closing down any railway lines at the moment. We are awaiting recommendations that the Board, after intensive study, are to make. If there are social and environmental implications involved, these will be considered. We are not intending to do anything anti-social. We are 1662 trying to get the best and most economic service for the country.
§ LORD LEATHERLANDMy Lords. I thank the noble Lord for his assurance that the Government are not intending to do anything anti-social.
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord, who said that there had been no closures recently, whether or not the Swanage, line, which is in a very difficult area from the traffic point of view, has not been recently closed? Certainly permission for somebody to take it on and run it has been refused.
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, I must confess that I am not aware of the actual case to which the noble Lord, Lord Shackleton, refers. If it has been recently closed—and this I know nothing about—it must have been the result of a decision made some time ago.