§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government whether American bombs are being exported from British ports for use in Vietnam and Indo-China.
§ THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR DEFENCE (LORD CARRINGTON)My Lords, as I explained in answer to the noble Lord's Question on Monday, a quantity of American explosives was recently shipped from the United Kingdom to Zeebrugge and I understand that these were later diverted to South-East Asia. The use of these explosives is not a matter for Her Majesty's Government.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, in thanking the Minister, may I ask whether it is not the case that they are being exported to Thailand? Would there be any value in the exporting of these bombs to Thailand by the Americans if they were not to be used in the Vietnam war? Is the Minister aware how shocking it is to many of us that facilities should be given in this country for expanding the bombing of Vietnam by the American Forces?
§ LORD CARRINGTONMy Lords, as I said to the noble Lord on Monday when he asked exactly the same question, these were American stores and the American Forces are entitled to move them to meet their own needs, provided that within this country they comply with our safety requirements.
§ BARONESS LEE OF ASHERIDGEMy Lords, may we take it from that that Her Majesty's Government take no responsibility at all for the delivery point of these bombs, and would be quite indifferent if they were in fact used in Vietnam? Would he further keep in mind that it is worth investigating and getting the facts about this matter, because if we have any influence at all in this tragic situation surely that influence must be to demonstrate that we are seeking to bring the bombing and the war to an end and not rather furtively to take sides one way.
§ LORD CARRINGTONMy Lords, as I have said now on three occasions, I do not think that it is within the purport of Her Majesty's Government to control what the United States do with their ammunition other than when it is within this country. As regards the policy of Her Majesty's Government towards Vietnam, that was stated very clearly in another place by my right honourable friend the Minister of State about a month ago.
THE DUKE OF ATHOLLMy Lords, in view of the fact that the Americans are probably fighting this war on behalf of all the Western World, including the Australians and the New Zealanders who are helping them, is it not only right that we should afford them some assistance in this way?
§ LORD CARRINGTONMy Lords, that would seem to be another point of view.
§ LORD DAVIES OF LEEKMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that though it may be a point of view it is a point of view so erroneous that the noble Duke has shown his complete ignorance of the origin of this 30 years' war in Vietnam. While I am perfectly aware that the Minister has no power whatsoever to control the United States, we no longer seem to be able to control our destiny.
THE EARL OF ARRANMy Lords, would Her Majesty's Government not agree that, in company with the noble Duke, some, indeed many, Members of this House would be only too glad to assist our American Allies in their light against Communist aggression?
§ LORD CARRINGTONMy Lords, what I do know, from having sat in this House for a long time, is that there are differences of opinion about the Vietnam war.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, can the noble Lord confirm a statement I had yesterday from a member of the Merchant Service that these bombs are now being transferred from British ships to American ships on the High Seas, because of the threat of Belgian dockers not to handle them? Is that not a contravention of international law, both in territorial waters and in non-territorial waters?
§ LORD CARRINGTONNo, my Lords, I did not know that. Perhaps the noble Lord would put another Question on that subject and I will try to find out.