§ LORD HOYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will now make a Statement about the proposed nuclear generating station at Stake Ness, in Banffshire.
§ THE MINISTER OF STATE, SCOTTISH OFFICE (LORD POLWARTH)My Lords, in order to provide adequate supplies of electricity in the North-East of Scotland new generating capacity will be required there by the winter of 1978–79. The North of Scotland Hydro-Electric Board has indicated that this may be either a nuclear station at Stake Ness or an oil/gas-fired station near Peterhead. The decision on the type of station to be built will be made in the light of the review of nuclear reactor policy which is being conducted by the Government. I expect the Board to be in a position to announce its decision very soon.
§ LORD HOYMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord for the courtesy of that Answer, but I must say I find it exceedingly disappointing. Is he aware that six months ago I received a letter from the noble Baroness who then occupied his post, saying that this matter was urgent and we must have a decision without delay? Does he not think it 866 a little unfair to come along now, six months later, and say, " Well, let us think for another six months or twelve months "? In view of the necessity for electricity in Scotland, and of the fact that this project would provide employment for 3,000 people and certainly give guarantee of it to 300 after it was done, would not the Government speed up the proposal a little more quickly than they have been doing over the last 18 months?
§ LORD POLWARTHMy Lords, Her Majesty's Government, are well aware of the considerations which the noble Lord, Lord Hoy, has just mentioned, but I must point out that with an investment of this size, on which electricity supplies for the development of this growing area of the North-East will depend, it is vital that we get the right decision. As to nuclear policy, this is a complex and highly technical problem and the review being made of all aspects of nuclear power policy is a very thorough one. I can assure the noble Lord that the Secretary of State appreciates that supplies must be available by 1978, from whatever kind of station, and he will ensure that the supplies by that date, by one means or another, are not in danger.
§ LORD AVEBURYMy Lords, would the noble Lord agree that if a decision is not made in the near future our prospects of selling the steam generating heavy water reactor overseas will be jeopardised, and that this reactor could otherwise make an extremely useful contribution to British exports?
§ LORD POLWARTHMy Lords, the noble Lord will know that I am not myself, nor is my Department, responsible for that particular issue, but I will certainly ensure that his comments are brought to the attention of my noble colleague who is.
§ LORD SHERFIELDMy Lords, is it not the case that the North of Scotland Hydro-Electric Board have in the exercise of their commercial judgment expressed a preference for the installation of a steam generating heavy water reactor? Is it not also the case that unless a domestic order for this type of reactor is given, the prospects of overseas sales are very limited? Is he not further aware that the delay in coming to a decision is 867 causing alarm and despondency among all those who are connected with the nuclear industry?
§ LORD POLWARTHMy Lords, the main concern of the North of Scotland Hydro-Electric Board is to have an adequate supply of electricity by the dates I have mentioned, with certainty of its being available then, and also by a system that is tried and proved to be technically feasible, safe and in every other respect satisfactory. While I appreciate the implications for the nuclear industry as a whole, as I said earlier, this matter is being reviewed thoroughly and with urgency, and I cannot add to the timetable other than to say, as I did before, that the Board hope to be in a position to announce the decision very soon.
§ LORD WYNNE-JONESMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that on Tyneside Parsons Reyrolle's have recently laid off 900 men because the Government have not yet reached a decision on this matter?
§ LORD POLWARTHYes, my Lords.
§ THE EARL OF LAUDERDALEMy Lords, would not the noble Lord agree that the provision of power, from whatever source, is an essential part of the on-shore infrastructure for off-shore development of our natural resources? Would he be so good as to have a look at this matter again and try to jog up those who are lagging?
§ LORD POLWARTHMy Lords, I entirely appreciate the importance of the point raised by the noble Earl. I would only repeat again what I have said: that the Secretary of State has said—and he has discussed this subject with the Chairman of the North of Scotland Board recently—that supplies of electricity, from whatever is the most appropriate source, will be available by that date.
§ LORD HOYMy Lords, would the noble Lord answer one further question? Is it not a fact that certain other interests are preventing a decision from being taken? As a tender for a steam generating heavy water reactor for a station has already been made, is not the decision on whether or not it ought to be accepted being delayed by the intervention of certain other private interests?
§ LORD POLWARTHMy Lords, I was not aware—and indeed I am not aware—that such is the case.
§ LORD POPPLEWELLMy Lords, can the noble Lord say how long this matter has been under active consideration? Because the consideration of nuclear energy as an alternative has been under review for such a long time that it seems the House might now be told when a decision will be taken.
§ LORD POLWARTHMy Lords, the beginning of this review was certainly some time before I moved to the position that I now occupy, and all I can do is to pass the noble Lord's comments to my noble colleague who is responsible. I am sorry that the information is not available to me.
§ LORD BYERSMy Lords, as a matter of interest, may I ask the noble Lord, if we are to rely entirely on well-tried processes, how we achieve technological progress?
§ LORD POLWARTHMy Lords, by putting our backs into it and making sure that what we are developing is going to work, rather than embarking on an ill-considered scheme.
§ LORD STRATHCLYDEMy Lords. will the noble Lord look into the matter which has been raised by the noble Lord, Lord Hoy, and have it examined, because it has serious merit?
§ LORD POLWARTHMy Lords, I will of course pass those suggestions on to the appropriate quarter.
§ LORD HUGHESMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that a criticism was made in the Press the other day that the Government have a surplus of doers and not enough thinkers, and would he take into account that we could do with a little more doing and a little less thinking in the Scottish Office?
§ LORD ERROLL OF HALEMy Lords, would my noble friend retract what was possibly an unintentional remark, that the steam generating heavy water reactor is an ill-considered scheme? I speak as the director of the company that made the tender (and I mention that as noble Lords are expected to declare their 869 interests), but the fact is that the prototype has been running very well at Win-frith Heath for a number of years at Government expense, so surely it is a well-considered scheme.
§ LORD POLWARTHMy Lords. I hasten to apologise immediately to the noble Lord because what I said was perhaps a slip of the tongue. What I intended to imply was that we did not want to embark on any scheme unless it had been fully considered. I was not implying that this one was ill-considered but that it had to be thought out, so that we were certain it would be operative not merely on a pilot or trial scale but on full scale by the time the energy was required.
§ THE EARL OF LAUDERDALEMy Lords, is not the noble Lord aware that we welcomed him in the Scottish Office in the hope of getting a move on?
THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (EARL JELLICOE)My Lords, I hesitate to intervene and I do not know whether this is a House of doers or thinkers, but in any case I think it is time for us to pass on to the next Question.