§ LORD SHINWELL>: My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government to state the average price of home produced foods retailed in the United Kingdom in July, 1970, and the average price at the last available date, and what was the average price of imported foods in July, 1970, compared with the average price at the last available date.
EARL FERRERS>: My Lords, there is no clear-cut division in the Food Index between imported and other foods. However, the index of food items which are mainly home-produced for direct consumption stood at 145.0 in July, 1970, and at 171.8 on May 16, 1972, the latest date for which information is available. The index of food items which are mainly imported for direct consumption stood at 134.5 in July, 1970, and at 165.5 in May this year.
§ LORD SHINWELL>: My Lords, may I ask the noble Earl whether or not the figures relating to imports of food suggest a large element of inflation which is even as formidable as the inflationary effect of rising wages?
EARL FERRERS>: My Lords, there is a very large element, evidently, of the item to which the noble Lord refers in the imported foods. It may be of interest to the noble Lord to know that over the past six months the price index of foods mainly imported for direct consumption has gone up by 3.6 per cent., whereas that for home-produced food has gone down by 1.7 per cent.
§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Earl for those figures because they fortify my contention that there is a formidable element of inflation in the cost of imported foodstuffs. In view of the noble Earl's Answer—which I think is a very candid and frank one—may I ask why the Government, or the Prime Minister for example, always maintain that inflation is entirely attributable to increased wages? Why is nothing ever said about rising food prices, particularly imported food prices?
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, my right honourable friend the Minister of Agriculture has stated that during the past year between about 30 per cent. and 50 per cent. of the increase in food prices is due to shortage of world supplies. The remainder is very largely due to inflationary wage claims.
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, is the noble Earl seriously suggesting that inflationary wage claims are the major cause of inflation? Have this Government learned nothing?
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, I was being serious, and the Government have learned something. The point I was trying to make was that while between 30 per cent. and 50 per cent. of the increase in food prices is due to a shortage of world supplies, the remainder is due to inflation, much of which is caused by wage claims.
§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords, may I then venture to put a further question to the noble Earl? Why always pick on the workers and the trade unions when they ask for higher wages, and determine their demands as being associated fundamentally and essentially with inflation? Why is it not made clear to the general public that one of the main causes of inflation is the cost of food coming from overseas? The noble Earl has himself given the case away by referring to a rise in food prices over which the Government may have no control—
§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords, I want to explain my question. The noble Earl has conceded the point that the Government have no control over this. They recognise that.
§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords, if noble Lords are seeking to intimidate me—
THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (EARL JELLICOE)My Lords, I think the noble Lord is beginning to strain the patience of the House. I think it would be helpful if he could put his supplementary question in the usual concise form to which we have become accustomed from the noble Lord.
§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords, I am obliged to the noble Earl, but I require no advice as to how I should put a supplementary question. I have been putting supplementary questions for about 50 years.
§ LORD SHINWELLOrder if you like! I will not be intimidated by anybody. Let that be clearly understood.
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, I apologise to the noble Lord for interrupting him, but he was not complying with the widely expressed feeling of the House that he should put his supplementary question in a concise form. I do not wish in any way to provoke the noble Lord, for whom we all have a high regard. We know of his great services to this country ; but I would ask the noble Lord to bear in mind what are our normal rules of procedure.
§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords, I apologise to the noble Earl and to your Lordships' House, but I was on the point of putting my question arising from what the noble Earl said, according to my fashion, when we had these unseemly noises from the other side. That is what I object to. Do not do it again.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, could the noble Earl say to what extent the rapid increase in land prices—particularly in the farming community—has had an effect in the increase in food prices in this country?
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, I think that the mathematical computation would be so complicated that I could not possibly give an answer to the noble Lord—and certainly not without notice.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, may I take it from the noble Earl that this is not a factor that the Government have taken into account when they have made various accusations against the working community?
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, the Government have not made any such accusations. All they have said is that inflation puts up the cost of food prices. Even the noble Lord, Lord Shepherd, will remember his own Leader's remarks when he was Prime Minister. He said that one man's wage increase is another man's price increase. We agree.
§ LORD SLATERMy Lords, is the noble Earl not aware that the answer which was given to my noble friend Lord Shinwell is a direct attack in regard to the increase in the cost of living? The inflationary position we find ourselves in to-day is being attributed by the Government to the rise in applications from the workers for wage increases. At the same time, is the noble Earl not aware that we never hear any form of direct attack about the profits that are meted out to the investors in a big industry? What are the Government going to do about that?
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, that question is very wide of the original Question which appeared on the Order Paper.
§ LORD BALFOUR OF INCHRYEMy Lords, with reference to the question by the Leader of the Opposition as to whether the Government have learned anything, could we have an assurance that the Government have learned a great deal from the many mistakes over a wide field which the previous Administration made in the matter of the economy?