§ 3.15 p.m.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government what decisions they have made on the proposals endorsed by a majority of members of the Commonwealth Sanctions Committee for consideration by their Governments regarding the tightening of sanctions against the illegal Administration of Rhodesia.
§ THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANMy Lords, at its meeting on June 29 the Commonwealth Sanctions Committee unanimously recommended that Commonwealth Governments consider proposing to the United Nations additional measures for ensuring that sanctions are more effectively implemented. Her Majesty's Government have only just received these proposals in their final form and are considering what further action is appropriate.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, while thanking the noble Marquess for that reply, may I ask him whether, in view of the fact that it was the British representative at the Sanctions Committee who secured an agreement that these decisions should be referred back to Governments rather than going straight to the United Nations, it is desirable that Her Majesty's Government should give early attention to the decisions? May I ask the noble 354 Marquess in particular about the foreclosing of loopholes in the breaking of sanctions: first, whether Her Majesty's Government will support the suggestion of an inspectorate to prevent goods destined for Rhodesia being catalogued for South Africa and Portuguese territories; and secondly, whether they will support the idea or instituting prosecutions against those who break the sanctions?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANMy Lords, I cannot at this stage give the noble Lord and the House a positive indication of Her Majesty's Government's reaction to the proposals that were made; as I said, we have only just received them in their final form. But I can assure the noble Lord that they are being looked at as a matter of urgency.
§ LORD GRIMSTON OF WESTBURYMy Lords, can by noble friend tell the House which members of the Commonwealth Sanctions Committee have themselves been trading with Rhodesia?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANNo. my Lords; I am afraid I cannot give my noble friend that information. I do not know the answer; but I take note of what he has asked.
§ VISCOUNT MASSEREENE AND FERRARDMy Lords, would not my noble friend agree that as many countries, including America, appear to be breaking sanctions, the whole question of sanctions is really rather a farce?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANMy Lords, I had a feeling that my noble friend might ask me something on those lines. I think that all I can do is to refer him to the remarks made by my noble friend Lady Tweedsmuir of Belhelvie in the debate on the Pearce Commission Report in which she set out clearly Her Majesty's Government's present view as to sanctions.
§ LORD MILVERTONMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend one question which seems to me to be very relevant to this matter and which does arise from the Question? Is it not an accepted fact that the only hope of a peaceful and fair solution of the problems facing Rhodesia is the establishment of friendly relations in which such a solution could be reached? And, arising out of that, is it 355 likely that any such position could be other than hopelessly prejudiced by the vindictive vendetta against that country which is at the moment being publicised by the noble Lord, Lord Brockway?
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, is this in fact a question or is it an attack upon my noble friend?
§ LORD SHEPHERDIs this a question?
§ LORD MILVERTONMy Lords, it seems to me—
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, I think that on this occasion my noble friend is not putting a question to the Minister.
§ THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANMy Lords, I am not quite certain which question I should be answering at the moment. I tried to explain Her Majesty's Government's position regarding the Question I was asked, and I have referred to what my noble friend Lady Tweedsmuir said in her speech of three weeks ago, in which she made the position regarding sanctions perfectly plain.
§ BARONESS GAITSKELLMy Lords, may I ask the Minister this question? Is it not true that in some cases where members of the Commonwealth break sanctions it is because they have to do so in order to live at all?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANMy Lords, I do not know about that. I think it is perfectly plain to your Lordships that sanction-breaking is going on, but one could also say that, so far as this country is concerned, we have an admirable record in applying sanctions.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, in view of the reference to myself, is the Minister aware that I am not concerned in a vendetta against anyone? I have been concerned to establish racial equality in Southern Rhodesia.
§ LORD MILVERTONMy Lords, is it not also relevant to say that—
§ LORD SHEPHERDNo.
§ LORD MILVERTONIs it not a reasonable question to ask how many 356 members of the United Nations or of the Commonwealth could possibly accept at home conditions which they are trying to force upon Rhodesia?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANMy Lords, as I said I do not think that this is perhaps the occasion to get involved in another Rhodesia debate. I have tried to make plain the reasons for Her Majesty's Government's actions in this matter.