§ 2.41 p.m.
§ LORD RAGLANMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will introduce legislation to require the display on the container of any alcoholic drink offered for sale:—
- (1) the percentage by volume of alcohol; and
- (2) the minimum volume of the fluid content.]
§ LORD DENHAMMy Lords, the declaration of alcohol content in the form of a percentage is mandatory on pre-packed spirits and a few wines either as proof spirit or by volume. I do not think it is necessary at present to make one method obligatory. Nor do I see any justification for extending the requirement to all alcoholic drinks. The Weights and Measures Act 1963 requires prepacked intoxicating liquor to be marked with an indication of quantity by capacity measurement. Possible amendments to extend the control over the only two exceptions to this requirement, that is, wine and British wine, and retail sales of more than one gallon or less than 3 fluid ounces, are being discussed with the industry.
§ LORD RAGLANMy Lords, is the Minister aware that anyone buying a bottle of wine has no indication of how much liquid there may be in the bottle, let alone its strength, and that too often the customer gets what one might call only "hope value"?
§ LORD DENHAMMy Lords, what were the noble Lord's last few words?
§ LORD RAGLANMy Lords, I said that too often the customer gets what one might call only "hope value" as to the contents of the bottle.
§ LORD DENHAMMy Lords, as I said, negotiations are going on with the industry over the volume of the bottles. With regard to the alcoholic content, the noble Lord will perhaps know that this is not the only criterion customers look for in wine.
§ LORD RAGLANMy Lords, is the Minister aware that it is possible—and it has been done—for one beer to be sold in the same pub under two different labels at different prices, the cause being that customers are not told what they are getting?
§ LORD DENHAMMy Lords, if people are going to put the wrong label on a bottle of beer, the fact of marking either the volume or the alcohol capacity on the label does not really make much difference.
§ LORD BURNTWOODMy Lords, will not the answer to the Question on 1063 the Order Paper have to be reconsidered when we get into the Common Market, in view of the regulations governing production of wine in such countries as France? Secondly, has the Minister seen a newspaper report recently about the alcoholic content of some forms of beers, which tends to confirm what many of us have felt with much anxiety for a long time, that in some cases the alcohol content has disappeared altogether?
§ LORD DENHAMMy Lords, the Common Market regulations for the alcohol content of beers and wines are that wines are graded into types and beers into categories. There is a minimum and maximum alcoholic content laid down for these categories and if the content is within those limits it is all right. So far as the newspaper reports about reduced strength of beer, which I think the noble Lord is talking about, are concerned, I would refer the noble Lord to an Answer given by my honourable friend the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food in another place on January 18, when he said:
The average gravity of all beers in 1960 was 1037.25 degrees and in 1970 it was 1036.65 degrees. This is a loss of only 0.6 degrees in a figure of over 1,000."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, Commons; col. 200.]
§ LORD BLYTONMy Lords, is the Minister aware that Charles Peace went to the scaffold for less than the brewers are doing to the public in regard to price and alcoholic content of beers?
§ LORD DENHAMMy Lords, I am well aware of the interest of the noble Lord, and also of many of your Lordships, in this subject.
§ LORD WYNNE-JONESMy Lords, can the Minister confirm that in Sweden beer is classified by the number of times that a rat can swim across the vat before drowning?
§ LORD DENHAMMy Lords, I have learnt many interesting facts in my search to answer this Question, but I had not as yet learnt that one.
§ LORD SEGALMy Lords, could not the "hope" content of the alcohol be enhanced by the mixing of drinks?
§ LORD PLATTMy Lords, is the Minister aware that this matter goes a lot 1064 further than just the consumer's interest in getting value for his money? Some of us take our drinking very seriously, and we also take our driving of motor cars very seriously. To me it is little or no information to get some note about alcoholic content in terms of proof spirit, or degrees or something of that kind, which the average, intelligent, unscientifically-minded man does not understand at all. I think it would be of the greatest advantage—
§ LORD PLATTFurther, my Lords, do the Government realise that this suggestion could be of great value to people who are quite seriously worried about this matter?
§ LORD DENHAMYes, my Lords. In fact, the International Organisation for Legal Metrology, of which the United Kingdom is a member, is meeting in October to discuss whether there should be international use of a system of measuring alcoholic strength by volume, and it would certainly be wrong to make any change before considerations there have been made.
§ LORD PLATTMy Lords, I am grateful for that answer.
§ LORD RAGLANMy Lords, are the Government aware that, by their unwillingness to take action in this matter, at any rate for the moment, they are encouraging vendors to be shy about letting people know what they are getting? Furthermore, if I bring in a short Bill, will they give me at least drafting assistance?
§ LORD DENHAMMy Lords, we shall have to wait to see the noble Lord's Bill.