§ [No. 14]
§ After Clause 18, page 16, line 14, at end insert the following new clause:
§ Use of poison against grey squirrels and coypus
§ ".—(1) The relevant Minister may, by an order made for the purposes of this section and applying either to the whole of Great Britain or to any specified part or area thereof, specify a poison for use for the purpose of destroying grey squirrels or coypus and the manner of its use for that purpose; and it shall be a defence in proceedings for an offence against any of the enactments mentioned in subsection (2) of this section to show that—
- (a)the act alleged to constitute the offence was done for the purpose of destroying grey squirrels or coypus and was done at a time when, and in a place where, such an order had effect; and
- (b)the poison used and the manner of its use were such as to comply with the provisions of the order.
§ (2) The said enactments are section 8(b) of the Protection of Animals Act 1911, section 7(b)of the Protection of Animals (Scotland) Act 1912 (which restrict the placing on land of poison and poisoned substances) and so 848 much of section 5(1)(a) of the Protection of Birds Act 1954 as relates to poisoned or poisonous substances.
§ (3) The relevant Minister shall not make an order for the purposes of this section except after such consultation as he considers appropriate with such organisations as appear to him to represent the interests concerned and unless a draft of the order has been laid before, and approved by a resolution of, each House of Parliament.
§ (4) Any order made for the purposes of this section may make different provision in relation to grey squirrels and in relation to coypus; and the power to make orders for the purposes of this section shall be exercisable by statutory instrument and shall include power to vary or revoke a previous order.
§ (5) In this section "the relevant Minister" means—
- (a)in the case of an order which does not apply outside England, the Minister;
- (b)in the case of an order which does not apply outside Scotland, the Secretary of State for Scotland;
- (c)in the case of an order which applies both in England and in Scotland but not in Wales, the Minister and the Secretary of State for Scotland acting jointly;
- (d)in the case of an order which applies in Wales or both in England and Wales but not (in either case) in Scotland, the Minister and the Secretary of State for Wales acting jointly; and
- (e)in the case of an order which applies in England, Scotland and Wales, the Minister and those Secretaries of State acting jointly.
§ (6) This section is without prejudice to any defence available apart from this section in proceedings for any such offence as is mentioned in subsection (1) of this section; and nothing in this section shall be construed as conferring any exemption from any provision contained in or having effect under any enactment not mentioned in subsection (2) of this section."
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 14. The purpose of this Amendment is to enable Ministers to make orders permitting the use of poison for the control of grey squirrels and coypus, two species which have been introduced into this country and are now responsible for damage of economic significance. Noble Lords who attended the Committee stage will remember the interesting debate initiated by the noble Lord, Lord Dulverton, who sought to introduce a new clause amending the Protection of Animals Act 1911 in such a way as to allow poisons to be used against grey squirrels, as they 849 are already permitted against rats and mice and other small ground vermin. My noble friend Lord Denham drew attention to the danger to wildlife generally if poisons were used indiscriminately and mentioned that it was important to await the results of field trials which were being conducted by scientists of the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and of the Forestry Commission to develop a safe and efficient method of presenting Warfarin to grey squirrels with minimal risk to other species before considering whether any revision of the law was desirable.
The noble Lord, Lord Dulverton, kindly withdrew his Amendment on the understanding that the Government would introduce a new clause giving Ministers appropriate enabling powers. An additional clause to the Bill was accepted in another place, which would enable Ministers to make orders permitting a specified poison to be used in a specified manner to control grey squirrels by extending the defences provided under the Protection of Animals Acts and in the Protection of Birds Act 1954 to include the poisoning of grey squirrels by the method specified in the order.
§ Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendment.—(Earl Ferrers.)
§ LORD HOYMy Lords, I remember our Committee proceedings well because I could not understand why so many noble Lords were present on the Bench opposite. I soon discovered that the forestry interests had turned out in great number. This is, of course, exactly what they want, and my only regret is that they are not present tonight when the actual work is being done. Considerable interest has been shown in this problem and last Thursday a number of questions were asked on this subject. I do not think the Government had much alternative but to introduce an Amendment of this kind after one of my noble friends had commented that he could not get into his house because it was occupied by squirrels. Something had to be done and I welcome the new clause on behalf of, among others, absent noble Lords opposite.
EARL WALDEGRAVEMy Lords, I am absolutely certain that this clause is necessary and desirable, not only for 850 forestry interests although the forestry interests may predominate. There will be no naturally growing sycamore in this country very shortly and I doubt whether there will be much beech unless we can learn to control squirrels. The depredations on the fruit industry are getting quite intolerable.
§ BARONESS PHILLIPSMy Lords, may I ask one question? Warfarin seems to be curiously ineffective against mice. Perhaps the squirrels are not so used to it. But is it really going to be any good putting it down? The mice are still very active in the Palace of Westminster.
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, a lot of the success of the product seems to depend on the person who puts it down. If there are many mice running around Westminster despite Warfarin it is perhaps being put down in such a way that the mice will not eat it. Alternatively they may have become used to it. But I rather doubt it. I am advised, and in my experience, Warfarin is pretty effective. I can assure the noble Lord, Lord Hoy—and I am grateful to hint and to my noble friend for welcoming this particular Amendment because it has caused a lot of concern to a great many people—that this should help on the problem of the grey squirrel, which is a quite substantial one, although the clause was not included in the Bill specifically in order to enable the noble Lord, Lord Hale, to rid his house and live in peace free of squirrels.