§ 2.55 p.m.
§ LORD CHALFONTMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what progress has been made in the Conference of the Committee on Disarmament with regard to an agreement to ban the testing of nuclear weapons underground.]
§ THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE, FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIAN)My Lords, work has continued in the Conference of the Committee on Disarmament on the use of seisomology as an aid to the verification of a comprehensive nuclear test ban treaty, and a number of proposals have been made this year with a view to achieving such a test ban. But important differences still remain between the positions of the major testing Powers on the question of on-site inspection to verify observance of the provisions of a treaty. As the noble Lord will know. the Soviet Union has never accepted the necessity of such inspection.
§ LORD CHALFONTMy Lords, I thank the noble Marquess for that Answer. Are the Government aware that nuclear testing has been going on at a higher rate since 1963, when the partial nuclear test ban was signed, than before that test ban treaty was signed? Will Her Majesty's Government look again at the question of inspection? In the light of recent advances in distant detection of nuclear explosions and other explosions by seismic means, arc the Government still convinced that on-site inspection is necessary? The noble Marquess said that the Soviet Union has consistently refused to accept this; on the other hand, the United States has consistently refused to contemplate a comprehensive test ban without any on-site inspection. In the light of the latest developments, are the Government convinced that on-site inspection is necessary 426 to the policing of an effective test ban treaty?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANMy Lords, I entirely accept the noble Lord's opening remarks about the higher rate of testing, about which I think we are all sorry. He has also stated quite accurately the position of the two major testing Powers. Her Majesty's Government's position at the moment, taking account of what the noble Lord has said about the latest developments, is that on-site inspection is still necessary. We have not, of course, closed our minds over this question, but in the state of our knoweldge at the moment we think it is the only way of ensuring adequate verification.
§ LORD DAVIES OF LEEKMy Lords, can the noble Marquess tell us whether mankind may be informed, and not only about testing? Can we not break the universal conspiracy of silence which has resulted in a paucity of information about the consequences of these tests on water supplies, and about the permanent damaging of the earth's crust as has happened in America? I think that mankind deserves this information; but there is a conspiracy of silence about it which is dangerous for the future.
§ THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANI think, my Lords, that that is going rather wide of the original Question. I entirely agree with the noble Lord that the great hazards of this form of testing need to be widely publicised.
§ LORD CHALFONTMy Lords, will the noble Marquess give an undertaking that the Government will continue to press upon the Soviet Union and the United States the need to reduce to a minimum the number of nuclear tests taking place, especially in the light of the effect that this might have on the important strategic arms limitation talks at present going on between the two major Powers? Secondly, can he tell me what is the view of the Government about the recent proposal that there should be a limited number of on-site inspections which could be scaled down to zero as it became clear that an underground test ban was being faithfully observed? Finally, can he assure me that the Government will continue to press this aim of a comprehensive test ban energetically, taking the fullest account of 427 the views of the non-nuclear Powers and the non-aligned Powers, without following too faithfully the line of either of the nuclear super Powers?
§ TIIE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANYes, my Lords, I can give the noble Lord the assurance for which he asked in his last question. On the question of scaling down the tests, that suggestion has, I think, been made by the Canadian Government. This is something that we are quite prepared to look at. We feel, on the whole, that if we can get the C.T.B. it would be better than an interim arrangement; but we are looking at these things.
VISCOUNT ST. DAVIDSMy Lords, does not the noble Marquess agree that one of the best ways of ensuring that we have fewer of these explosions would be to give the matter the publicity which he has already said is necessary? If so, will he make sure that this publicity occurs?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANMy Lords, I should have thought that Questions like this were very useful in that regard.