HL Deb 30 November 1971 vol 326 cc140-2

2.41 p.m.

LORD CLIFFORD OF CHUDLEIGH

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government how many citizens of the Republic of Ireland there are at this moment in the United Kingdom and how many of these—

  1. (a) are permanent settlers who have come over since the war;
  2. (b) have been here temporarily for a year or more;
  3. (c) are here on a visit intended to last between a year and six months;
  4. (d) are here on such a visit of three to six months; and
  5. (e) are here on such a visit of three months or less.]

THE MINISTER OF STATE, HOME OFFICE (LORD WINDLESHAM)

My Lords, the only relevant information is drawn from the 1961 Census of Population in Great Britain, which showed that 684,000 persons enumerated had been born in the Irish Republic. and 42,000 in an unspecified part of Ireland. Of the total, 709,000 were resident in Great Britain; and this figure is estimated to have risen to 739,000 at the time of the 1966 Sample Census. In the Northern Ireland Census of 1961, 53,000 people enumerated had been born in the Irish Republic. The results of the 1971 Census are not yet available.

LORD CLIFFORD OF CHUDLEIGH

My Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that Answer, may I ask him this question? If there were 964,213 registrations and re-registrations (not counting those who do not bother to register) between 1951 and 1967—and I refer here to the Answer given by the noble Baroness, Lady Scrota, to a Question which I asked in 1968—would it not be a conservative estimate to say that about one and a half million have come here from the Republic since the war, a period of 26 years, as against the former period of 16 years? If that is the case, and in view of the recent happenings on both sides of the Irish Sea, how can the Government logically explain away, say, to a Jamaican or an Asian from East Africa with a British passport, the restrictions imposed upon him under the Immigration Act?

LORD WINDLESHAM

My Lords, I am afraid that I cannot speculate on the statistics given by the noble Lord. I believe the only accurate information is that contained in my Answer. As regards the question of immigration control between the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom, there are, of course, geographical, administrative and political implications which do not arise in the case, mentioned by the noble Lord, of the rest of the Commonwealth.

LORD LEATHERLAND

My Lords, does the noble Lord realise that this is a two-way traffic; that while people are coming here from Ireland, some people go from here to Ireland, and that in many of those cases they are of the utmost benefit to mankind and to this country?

LORD WINDLESHAM

Yes, indeed, my Lords. The traffic in the Common Travel Area is two-way; very large numbers of people, particularly visitors during the summer months, do travel from the Republic of Ireland to this country, and from this country to Ireland.

LORD LEATHERLAND

My Lords, I was not thinking only of those who go in the summer months but also of those who go in the month of November.

LORD KILBRACKEN

My Lords, the noble Lord referred to "the rest of the Commonwealth". Is he aware that the Republic of Ireland is not in the Commonwealth?

LORD WINDLESHAM

Yes, my Lords, I had noticed that.

LORD CLIFFORD OF CHUDLEIGH

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government how many citizens of the Republic of Ireland make use in a year of the facilities for entrance into the United Kingdom which they share with citizens of that realm.]

LORD WINDLESHAM

My Lords, I regret that this information is not available.

LORD CLIFFORD OF CHUDLEIGH

My Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that Answer may I ask him whether, based on the facts as reported by the police, 5,000 people marched in Hyde Park a month ago under the banner of the Republic? Is it the fact that four out of five of those arrested in the recent London arms cache find gave their addresses as County Cork, or that the Kilburn battalion of the I.R.A. claim responsibility for the Post Office Tower explosion? Can the noble Lord further tell the House whether the Government have any estimate of the percentage of visitors referred to in these two Questions whose loyalties lay with the I.R.A. and what facilities the Government have for repatriating them?

LORD WINDLESHAM

My Lords, citizens of the Republic of Ireland are subject to immigration control, and they are liable to deportation proceedings, so the courts and the Home Secretary have powers to deport in those cases where it is appropriate. The I.R.A. is an illegal organisation in the Republic of Ireland, and Mr. Lynch has firmly declared himself against violence. The Government of the Republic of Ireland are well aware of the concern of Her Majesty's Government in relation to these matters.