§ 2.35 p.m.
BARONESS DARCY (DE KNAYTH)My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will consider the exemption of aids and equipment for the disabled from the proposed value added tax.]
§ THE MINISTER OF STATE, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SECURITY (LORD ABERDARE)My Lords, Her Majesty's Government are not yet ready to announce detailed decisions on the coverage of value added tax, but the suggestion of the noble Baroness has been noted.
BARONESS DARCY (DE KNAYTH)My Lords, does not the Minister agree that it is most important for the disabled to be able to choose from a wide range of equipment and that it should be as cheap as possible? Is the Minister aware that many items of equipment, such as patients' hoists and wheelchairs and a lot of medical equipment, are not at present subject to purchase tax? Would he therefore agree that, although a value added tax may be less than purchase tax, the overall result, if there is not an exemption, will be a rise in the cost of equipment for the disabled?
§ LORD ABERDAREMy Lords, I appreciate all that the noble Baroness says, and it is perfectly true that there are a number of reliefs from purchase tax. Certainly these considerations will be borne in mind by my right honourable friend when he is making his decisions on value added tax.
§ LORD BLYTONMy Lords, could the noble Lord say whether, if we join the Common Market, these items will be excluded from the value added tax on the Continent?
§ LORD ABERDAREMy Lords, I cannot answer that question and say whether these items are excluded from the tax on the Continent.
§ LORD FRASER OF LONSDALEMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that in the blind world the Royal National Institute for the Blind, aided by St. Dunstan's, provides talking books, wireless sets for the blind, with the co-operation of the British Broadcasting Corporation, and a vast amount of Braille literature, together with typewriters and other apparatus? Is he aware that these blind charities have never been subject to selective employment tax and have paid very little purchase tax, and that it would be rather sad if the change of the form of tax should lead to blind people's being punished and penalised? Would he represent these aspects of the matter to his right honourable friend?
§ LORD ABERDAREYes, my Lords; I will certainly do as my noble friend suggests. I am sure that these representations have already been made to the Customs and Excise Department, but I will certainly draw their attention to them again.
§ BARONESS MASHAM OF ILTONMy Lords, if other European countries have such exemptions, will the Government consider having discussions with them about this matter?
§ LORD ABERDAREMy Lords, all these matters will be taken into account when my right honourable friend takes decisions.
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, I am not quite clear. Am I to understand that no medical or surgical equipment is to be exempted? If I have misunderstood the noble Lord, will he tell me what medical and surgical equipment will be exempted?
§ LORD ABERDAREMy Lords, the noble Baroness has completely misunderstood me. I said that no decisions had yet been made.
§ LORD PARGITERMy Lords, can the noble Lord say what the position will be in view of the fact that value added tax is supposed to be added at various stages of manufacture? Will there not be difficulties in sorting out different articles which go to make up a single item in the end? Will any system of rebates be provided, in order that effect may be given to what is required?
§ LORD ABERDAREMy Lords, I think this is going rather wide of the original Question. I would ask the noble Lord to wait until a decision is announced.
§ LORD FRASER OF LONSDALEMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that if these goods which the noble Baroness and I and others are asking should be considered are given what is called a zero rating, then one can claw back, or grab back, whatever tax is imposed?
§ LORD ABERDAREYes, my Lords.
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, reverting to the question asked by my noble friend Lord Blyton, can the noble Lord make it quite clear whether Her Majesty's Government in this matter will be a free agent, or will they have to tax the disabled if the other members of the E.E.C. say they must?
§ LORD ABERDAREMy Lords, I would ask the noble Lord to put down a separate Question on that point. It is rather different from the original Question on the Order Paper.
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, could the noble Lord tell the House what is the normal policy in the Common Market. Do they tax disabled people in this connection?
§ LORD ABERDAREMy Lords, this is a point on which I answered the noble Lord, Lord Blyton. I am afraid I cannot give a direct answer now, but I will certainly let the noble Baroness and the noble Lord, Lord Blyton, know.
§ LORD PARGITERMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that my question specifically referred to articles of this kind where it would be difficult to sort out the value added tax? What is to be done about it, because the tax will obviously be added at various stages of manufacture? Even if the Government 140 wish to do so, how are they going to provide that the relevant amount can be credited against the finished article?
§ LORD ABERDAREMy Lords, we are entering a debate on value added tax. There are different methods, I believe. There are the type of goods on which no tax is charged all the way along, and there is a type where the tax can be reclaimed at the last stage. I do not think we should enter this sort of debate on a very simple Question, to which I hope I have given a very simple Answer.
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLToo simple.