HL Deb 22 November 1971 vol 325 cc813-6

2.51 p.m.

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, I beg to ask a Question of which I have given Private Notice; namely,

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, in view of President Sadat's Statement that he sees no hope of solving the Middle East crisis peacefully and that a decision has been made, they will take the initiative to call a meeting of the United Nations Security Council to consider further urgent steps to prevent war.

THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE, FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (THE MARQUESS OF LOTIHAN)

My Lords, we are seriously concerned about the situation in the Middle East. But we shall need to give close study to what President Sadat, and others, have recently been saying before deciding whether there is any action which we might usefully take.

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, while thanking the Minister for that reply, may I ask whether when that consideration has been given he would bear in mind two alternative proposals? In view of the fact that the United Nations have adopted a resolution for the handling of this matter, would they not be prepared, perhaps through Dr. Jarring, to seek a meeting similar to the Rhodes Conference, where initially the two parties met separately; and secondly, whether they would consider calling a Geneva Conference of all the nations involved, where again the two sides would not have to face each other bilaterally when there is an objection on one side?

THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIAN

My Lords, certainly we will give consideration to both the proposals made by the noble Lord. I might inform him that the whole question is, as I understand, to be debated in the General Assembly of the United Nations in the not too distant future and it might be as well to await the expression of views made there before going any further.

LORD SHEPHERD

My Lords, is it not the fact that this debate at the United Nations is some three or four weeks away and there is a real feeling that a crisis flashpoint may well shortly be reached? If this matter cannot be taken to the Security Council, would the noble Lord consider whether there should not be further pressure within the Committee of Four, the Four Powers, to give fresh instructions to Dr. Jarring to see if he can find any way in which he could diffuse, at least for a period, what is a growing crisis?

THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIAN

My Lords, I will certainly consider that suggestion. I think the noble Lord is incorrect in saying that the debate is so far ahead. I understand that it is to be in the near future—within the next week or ten days. But one knows what happens at the United Nations, and it may be later. Of course we should welcome any initiative that Dr. Jarring can make, and if there is anything we can do to assist this, Her Majesty's Government will be willing to do so.

LORD SHEPHERD

My Lords, is it not a fact that Dr. Jarring, to take the initiative, would need the support of the Four Powers? I am asking the noble Lord to consider whether our Government should not take the initiative within the Four Power group to give fresh instructions to Dr. Jarring.

THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIAN

My Lords, as I say, I will certainly consider that suggestion. The other factor to be borne in mind is that the two Powers immediately concerned in this issue must also be willing to accept the initiative of Dr. Jarring.

LORD JANNER

My Lords, in view of the statements that have been made in this Chamber and in another place, that it is understood—and I think it is generally understood—that the two parties themselves should meet to discuss this matter, whether it be directly or through the intervention of another person, as in the Rhodes case, do not the Government feel that they should endeavour to ascertain from the other Governments whether they will press for a similar method of settling this matter? Obviously the Government must realise that the kind of request that is being made of Israel at the present time is one with which she cannot possibly comply. In the circumstances, the only way in which the parties can possibly come to a final settlement is by their meeting.

THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIAN

Certainly, my Lords. And we are prepared to give any support we can to the meeting of the two parties concerned. I think my right honourable friend made this plain in his speech to the Assembly in (I think it was) September.

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, is the Minister aware that the two proposals that I made were an effort to meet the difficulty about the immediate meeting of the two sides? That was intended as a bridge. Secondly, may I say to the Minister—

SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS

No!

LORD BROCKWAY

May I ask the Minister this question? Is not history just full of action that has been too late? May not the postponement of urgent action now lead to a situation which will make this terrible war inevitable?

THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIAN

My Lords, I do not want to give the noble Lord the impression that I am not aware of his suggestions in this matter: indeed I am, and I know the great interest that he takes in them. I will note carefully what he has said.

BARONESS GAITSKELL

My Lords, in view of the failure of all the efforts and suggestions that have been made, may I ask the Minister whether it would not be more useful for the Government to press President Sadat to meet the Israelies?—because the Israelis are prepared to meet him.

THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIAN

My Lords, as I said to the noble Lord, Lord Janner, just now, the Government would obviously look with complete favour on a meeting between the two sides. In our opinion, this is the way in which this dispute must be settled.

LORD SEGAL

My Lords, pending any possibility of the two sides meeting, could not the Government endeavour to use their influence towards a continuation of the existing cease-fire.

THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIAN

Yes, my Lords. I think, without notice of the question, I can give an assurance to that effect.