HL Deb 22 November 1971 vol 325 cc812-3

2.47 p.m.

THE EARL OF ARRAN

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will consider revoking the present arrangements whereby citizens of Eire may come and go to and from Great Britain without let or hindrance and obtain employment in this country without a work permit.]

LORD WINDLESHAM

My Lords, Her Majesty's Government have no plans for altering the existing arrangements.

THE EARL OF ARRAN

My Lords, although I am far from satisfied with the Minister's reply, may I ask whether he realises that, while I am not motivated by a spirit of vindictiveness, I have a sincere desire to decrease the number of unemployed in this country? Would he not agree that the presence of countless thousands of Irishmen in this country must inevitably add to that total?

LORD WINDLESHAM

My Lords, the question of unemployment and of the number of Irish people who can come here to seek work without permits is, we think, part of the wider issue of the Common Travel Area arrangements.

LORD SHINWELL

My Lords, may I ask a question, purely for the purpose of gaining information? Though I would not wish to impose any restriction on citizens of Eire coming to this country, can the noble Lord say whether such permission is based on a Treaty? If so, is the Treaty available in the Library so that one can read it?

LORD WINDLESHAM

No, my Lords; these are administrative arrangements. Control can be imposed between the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom by means of administrative action.

LORD INGLEWOOD

My Lords, can my noble friend say whether there is any let or hindrance to any such citizen of Eire joining a rifle club the day he comes over, perhaps acting as instructor?

LORD WINDLESHAM

My Lords, that hardly arises out of the Question. The Irish citizen has free access to this country, whether he comes here as a visitor or to work. He can engage in any lawful activities he likes, just as anybody else can.

LORD DAVIES OF LEEK

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that thousands of Irishmen from North and South, at times when this country had need of them, have been ready to serve it? May we not reach a pitch of neurosis when we wish to exclude, because of trouble in Northern Ireland, people of Irish nationality? Let us try to escape this neurosis that is running through the world. As a Welshman, I feel a tremor of fear running through my bones that one day it may be propose to exclude us.

LORD WINDLESHAM

My Lords, it is in our interests and in the interests of the people of Northern Ireland that as friendly relations as possible should be maintained with the Republic of Ireland. To impose control over immigration would make little contribution towards a peaceful settlement, either militarily or politically, in Northern Ireland.

THE EARL OF ARRAN

My Lords, are another 100,000 workers unemployed not important?

LORD WINDLESHAM

My Lords, I do not know where the noble Earl gets his figure of 100,000 from. The estimate I have been given is that there are about 25,000 workers from the Republic of Ireland who come to this country to settle and about a further 25,000 casual seasonal workers.

THE EARL OF ARRAN

My Lords, I merely say that I was informed by the Home Office that there are no definite figures.