DIRECTORS OF SOCIAL SERVICES: APPOINTMENT OF WOMEN (Hansard, 3 March 1971)

§ BARONESS WOOTTON OF ABINGER
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ THE MINISTER OF STATE, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SECURITY (LORD ABERDARE)
My Lords, 150 authorities have appointed a Director of Social Services. Fourteen of these are women.

§ BARONESS WOOTTON OF ABINGER
My Lords, while I thank the Minister for his not very reassuring Answer, may I ask whether he is not aware that for many years the great majority of social workers have been women, mostly earning very modest salaries? Does he not think it is a matter for concern that, when at last there is a reasonable career structure in this profession, the skill and experience of these women has been so poorly 1336 utilised in the highly paid appointments at the top of the hierarchy?

§ LORD ABERDARE
My Lords, I certainly recognise the most important part played by women in the field of social work. However, I must point out to the noble Baroness that these appointments were made by local authorities. In every case so far they have been filled by open advertisement, and it has been up to the local authority concerned to choose the person who, in their opinion, was best fitted for the post.

§ BARONESS BACON
My Lords, could the noble Lord say how many of the children's officers in charge of children's departments under the old Act were women?

§ LORD ABERDARE
My Lords, roughly speaking, about half.

§ LORD AMULREE
My Lords, may I ask Her Majesty's Government how many medical officers of health have been appointed to these director of social services posts?

§ LORD ABERDARE
My Lords, that really is another question, and I am afraid I must ask the noble Lord to give notice of it. But in general it has been the Government's policy, as it was the policy of the previous Government, for the new directors of social services to come from the social services and not be medical officers of health; certainly that they should not cover the two jobs.

§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILL
My Lords, the noble Lord said that this tiny proportion of women were chosen by the local authorities. Is it not the fact that 99 per cent. of the local authorities are men?

§ LORD ABERDARE
My Lords, that is up to those who elected them.

§ LORD AMULREE
My Lords, is it not a fact that the appointment of a director of social services must receive the approval of the Department of Health and Social Security?

§ LORD ABERDARE
My Lords, the Secretary of State has certain rights in this matter. He can advise the authority whether any of the candidates on the list supplied by the authority is unfitted. He can judge the qualifications of people 1337 put up for this appointment, but of course he would not discriminate in any way between the sexes.

LORD INGLEWOOD
My Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether he will convey to noble Baronesses opposite that there is one enlightened county in the North of England where both the chairman and the vice-chairman of the social services committee are women?

§ BARONESS WOOTTON OF ABINGER
My Lords, may I point out—

SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS:
No.

§ BARONESS WOOTTON OF ABINGER
May I remind the Minister—

SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS
No.

§ BARONESS WOOTTON OF ABINGER
My Lords, the Minister does not know what was going to follow. May I ask whether the Minister is not aware that, while his Department cannot make these appointments, they do, as I think he has admitted, have a right of veto on them? Is he not in a position to call attention to the very remarkable fact that the great majority of social workers are women and that fewer than one in ten have been appointed to these posts?

§ LORD ABERDARE
My Lords, I can only repeat that the Secretary of State has the power to object to possible persons for appointment only on the ground that they are not suitably qualified. I think the noble Baroness herself has called attention to the fact, and I do not think I need call further attention to it. But perhaps I may point out that the Secretary of State's chief adviser on social work is a woman, and so is her deputy.

§ BARONESS BACON
My Lords, would not the noble Lord agree that the figures he gave, which show that previously 50 per cent. of children's officers were women, indicate that, quite apart from the women's point of view, the children's services are taking second place in the new set-up?

§ LORD ABERDARE
My Lords, I cannot comment on that. These appointments are made by the local authorities, without any influence from the Secretary of State and the Department of Health, 1338 and it is up to them whom they appoint to these posts.

§ BARONESS WOOTTON OF ABINGER
My Lords, does the Minister never send circulars to local authorities calling their attention to various fields in which they might be more active and various lines of policy that they might follow?

§ LORD ABERDARE
My Lords, I think it would be discriminatory—sexual discrimination—if we were to do this.

§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILL
My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether he would send a circular if the great majority were women?

§ LORD NUGENT OF GUILDFORD
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that there are some noble Members of this House who believe that local government will work best if it is allowed a measure of independence?

§ LORD ABERDARE
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend.

§ LORD ILFORD
My Lords, will the Minister undertake that no undue pressure will be placed on local authorities in making these appointments?

§ LORD ABERDARE
Certainly, my Lords.