§ 2.52 p.m.
§ THE EARL OF ALBEMARLEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
[The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they would consider providing zebra crossings under a light standard on those national roads by-passing market towns so that the aged, afflicted or blind rural footpassengers can cross safely (maybe with heavy shopping bags, or at other times to and from market towns) for their lawful purposes.]
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, the policy adopted by my right honourable friend allows for the provision of pedestrian facilities on any road where traffic and pedestrian numbers warrant them. Zebra crossings are his responsibility on trunk roads but they are not normally suitable where speeds are over 40 m.p.h. The numerical standard can be relaxed where the proportion of elderly or infirm pedestrians is high. Where the street lighting is not good enough supplementary lamps can be provided.
§ THE EARL OF ALBEMARLEMy Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer. I do not think it is completely satisfactory and I should like to ask him this supplementary question. Is my noble friend aware that there is an inadequacy of crossings in proportion to the number of vehicles and the much greater number of foot passengers using the Queen's highway? Further, is he aware that his Answer to the Question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Segal, on June 10 8, about there being many lighted crossings in the cities and towns, begs my question about national by-pass roads having too few crossings for safe access to market towns?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, I think we are getting slightly confused. I thought I had given an Answer which indicated that my right honourable friend was able to do all the things for which my noble friend had asked. If there is a need, the local authorities can make a suggestion to my right honourable friend and he will look at it. On trunk roads, the local authorities can draw his attention to such a need, and if the noble Earl has any particular place in mind I should be only too happy to facilitate its being looked at again. Pelican crossings with flashing amber lights are a possible alternative, and equally well one could have subways or overpasses. The Department is completely open minded: where there is a need we will find a way.
§ THE EARL OF ALBEMARLEMy Lords, my Question was pointing out that the national highways are not suitably provided with crossings and I want the Government, who look after the national by-pass roads, to do something about it.
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONYes, my Lords, but the Government get information from the local authorities where there is found to be a need. My right honourable friend is only too pleased to have his attention drawn to any such necessity. All I have said is that where traffic is travelling at over 40 m.p.h. it is not normally found to be a good safety factor to have zebra crossings because the tendency is for other accidents to occur. But there are other ways of overcoming the difficulty.
§ LORD DAVIES OF LEEKMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that some of us are more than grateful to the noble Earl for daring to put down a Question about the rights, safety and destiny of the poor pedestrian? Is the noble Lord further aware that in this cacophonic jungle in which we are now living, with road signs and little men and women dancing up and down, and lights saying "Wait" or "Go", the human being does not seem to count at all? Will he please approach the powers-that-be to restore the rights of 11 a pedestrian to walk across the roads in dignity without the fear of being crushed by the juggernauts of modern transport?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, if the noble Lord, Lord Davies, waits for a green man to light up it will be quite safe for him to cross.
LORD NUGENT or GUILDFORDMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that experience has shown that an increase in the number of pedestrian crossings has the effect of causing danger rather than increasing safety? Is he aware that a considerable increase in the number of crossings results in worse observance of the safety factor of zebra crossings and therefore is at the expense of the pedestrian rather than adding to his safety? Is he further aware that it was a Labour Government in 1951 who had the courage to reduce the total number of zebra crossings by something like two-thirds, in order to give real safety to the remaining one-third?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONYes, my Lords; I think everything the noble Lord has said is most helpful. Pelican crossings are coming in to a greater extent. The question asked by the noble Earl referred particularly to trunk roads, and with all respect we have a criteria of safety. If there are zebra crossings and very few pedestrians, the crossings tend not to be observed by motorists who know that stretch of road, and when the odd pedestrian suddenly emerges he may be in greater danger.
§ LORD POPPLEWELLMy Lords, would it not be more sensible to deal with this problem not by way of zebra crossings, because they are dangerous on the national roads, but to provide subways or overhead footpaths?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONYes, my Lords; if the numbers warrant the provision of footbridges and subways they are certainly much better.
§ BARONESS WOOTTON OF ABINGERMy Lords, will the noble Lord bear in mind that it is extraordinarily difficult to carry a pram over a footbridge?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONYes, my Lords, and in such a case we should probably recommend a subway.