§ LORD BARNBY: My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what is their present policy with regard to any applications for export of (a) Naval Defence Equipment to (i) South Africa; (ii) Portugal; and (b) Defence Equipment of any character to (i) China; (ii) Cuba.]
§ THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE, FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIAN)My Lords, so far as South Africa is concerned, apart from such equipment as Her Majesty's Government have a legal obligation to supply, my right honourable friend the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary has stated that applications from South Africa for maritime arms will be judged in relation to British interests at the time. Our policy with regard to Portugal remains that laid down in 1961 by the previous Conservative Administration and followed by successive Governments; namely, that we do not supply Portugal with arms and military equipment for use in her overseas territories but we are prepared to supply such equipment in accordance with her reasonable requirements as a NATO ally. We do not at present export defence equipment to either Cuba or China.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, could the noble Marquess give encouragement to the hope that, in view of the massive commitment of public funds to the shipbuilding industry and the large scale of general unemployment in the country, acceptability of orders will be looked at with favour as regards marine defence equipment, particularly if by our not accepting orders they would go to other member countries of the United Nations? At the same time, may I also ask the noble Marquess whether he can confirm that orders for submarines from Portugal, which has habitually been buying British, have recently gone to another United Nations country?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANMy Lords, the matters which the noble Lord has raised are just the sort of matters which will be considered if any new orders are received from the South African Government. So far, we have had no requests of any kind.
§ LORD BROWNMy Lords, is it not a fact that the restrictions on exports to Communist countries are in the interests of United Kingdom security and defence? And is it not a fact that, while restrictions on exports to South Africa are not required in the interests of the United Kingdom security, they are required in the interests of coloured people?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANMy Lords, there again I think that all these are matters which have to be judged at the time by Her Majesty's Government.
§ LORD FRASER OF LONSDALEMy Lords, I believe the statement that the Minister made was that no arms shipments are at present being made to China or to Cuba. Is that for ideological reasons?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANNo, my Lords, So far as I know, we have received no requests from either of those countries. If we did receive a request, of course it would have to be given consideration. But at the moment it is a hypothetical question.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, in thanking the noble Marquess for his reply, may I remind him that he did not answer my second question as regards sub 8 marines? Would he write me if he is not able to give an answer now?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANMy Lords, I will certainly write to the noble Lord. I thought I implied by my Answer that all these are matters which have to be considered seriously when, and if, the question should arise.