HL Deb 04 August 1971 vol 323 cc1160-4

3.5 p.m.

THE CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES (THE EARL OF LISTOWEL)

My Lords, I beg to move that the Fifth Report from the Select Committee on House of Lords Offices be now considered.

Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.

The Committee's Report was as follows:

1. DOCUMENTARY FILM OF THE HOUSE OF LORDS

Members of the Committee have had an opportunity to see the proposed film produced by Lord Kelburn. The Committee are of opinion that, subject to the conditions already agreed to by Lord Kelburn, consent should be given to its release and subsequent distribution as the producer wishes.

2. ACCOMMODATION

The Committee considered a recommendation from the Sub-Committee on the Library that in response to request a Silence Room and a Non-Smoking Room should be provided in the Library.

The Committee recommend:

  1. (i) that the Truro Room should become a Silence Room;
  2. (ii) that subject to the agreement of the Sub-Committee on the Library the first large room on the left of the main door to the Library should become a Non-Smoking Room.

3. SUB-COMMITTEES

The Committee on Works of Art was appointed as follows:—

with a recommendation that the following Lords should be co-opted to serve on the Committee:—

with the Clerk of the Parliaments, with power to co-opt further Lords and to appoint its own Chairman.

4. PARLIAMENT OFFICE

The Committee authorised the employment of a temporary Executive Officer in the Parliament Office during the absence on sick leave of Miss J. P. Culverwell, the Examiner of Acts.

5. ATTENDANTS

The Clerk of the Parliaments informed the Committee of a review of the duties of the House of Lords' Attendants.

The Committee authorised the employment of two additional Attendants on the staff of the Department of the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod.

6. REVISED SCALES OF PAY

The Committee sanctioned the application of the following Establishment Circulars:—

  1. (a) D.E.O. (71) (PAY) No. 7 dated 29th June, 1971—Pay of the Clerical Grades and Certain Related Grades;
  2. (b) D.E.O. (71) (PAY) No. 8 dated 19th July, 1971—Pay of the Middle and Higher Grades;
  3. (c) D.E.O. (71) (PAY) No. 10 dated 23rd July, 1971—Higher Clerical Officers Revised scale of pay;
to analogous grades of the staff of the House of Lords.

7. SUPERANNUATION

The Committee sanctioned the payment of the following superannuation awards under the Superannuation Act, 1965:—

  1. (a) Provisional award of Pension and Additional Allowance to Miss Rosalind Clara Evernden, an Executive Officer, who retires on grounds of ill-health on the 1st October, 1971;
  2. (b) Pension and Additional Allowance to Mr. Henry Alfred Machal Kemp, B.E.M., Principal Doorkeeper, who retires on the 31st August, 1971.

THE EARL OF LISTOWEL

My Lords, I beg to move that this Report be agreed to.

Moved, That the Report be agreed to.—(The Earl of Listowel.)

LORD BALFOUR OF INCHRYE

My Lords, I wish to raise one point on the recommendations of the Offices Committee. It concerns Recommendation No. 2, which, in case any of your Lordships have not got the Report perhaps I may read. It says: Accommodation. The Committee considered a recommendation from the Sub-Committee on the Library that in response to request a Silence Room and a Non-Smoking Room should be provided in the Library. The Committee recommend:

  1. (i) that the Truro Room should become a Silence Room;
  2. (ii) that subject to the agreement of the Sub-Committee on the Library the first large room on the left of the main door to the Library should become a Non-Smoking Room."
I am not aware of those who form the Library Sub-Committee, nor am I aware of the procedures which would allow noble Lords to give their views to that Sub-Committee before it comes to a conclusion. I raise this matter because I think it is one on which many noble Lords may take a view as regards the Smoking and the Non-Smoking Room. The proposal, as I understand it, is that the large room on the left as you enter the Library should be made into the Non-Smoking Room. Presumably, smoking would be allowed in the room into which we pass when we go into the Library, and that rather frigid room beyond where there used to be a telephone.

I raise this matter from two points of view. First, I think that noble Lords who use the Library would agree that the large room on the left is probably the most patronised, the most agreeable and, if I may use the expression, the most homely of the rooms. It is certainly a large room. It may be a deplorable fact, but I think the majority of your Lordships, including myself, are addicted to the habit, I trust in moderation, of smoking. Surely it is only right that the large room, the first room on the left, should be reserved for those who care to smoke, and the non-smokers, if that is the wish of the majority, should go to the room on the far side.

My second point is that if smoking is to be allowed in the main room as you enter the Library, and forbidden in the first room on the left, those who do not smoke will have their lungs polluted by the smokers in the main entrance and in the other room, and they will have to pass through this difficult nicotine screen. Surely, all those who do not smoke would prefer to enter into the unpolluted atmosphere straight away by the reservation of the first room as you go into the Library, and possibly, if necessary, the room on the right, for non-smokers, leaving to those of us with such deplorable habits that we occasionally have a cigarette, a pipe, or sometimes even a cigar, to the room where we could indulge in what I think is a very reasonable habit. Therefore I trust that the Library Committee will give an opportunity to noble Lords on all sides of the House, who may feel as I do, to express their views before any conclusion is reached.

3.9 p.m.

LORD CHAMPION

My Lords, as the Chairman of the Sub-Committee which is under fire at the moment, I have to explain that the Library Sub-Committee was first of all instructed by the Offices Commitee, which is a large and representative Committee of this House, to consider the possibility of recommending that certain rooms in the Library should be set aside, on the one hand, as a Silence Room, and on the other, as a Non-Smoking Room, The Library Committee carefully considered this matter, and consulted as many as they could of the Members of your Lordships' House, but always remembering the instruction that had been given to them, and then made a recommendation to the Offices Committee that the Truro Room should be a Silence Room and a Non-Smoking Room.

The Offices Committee then referred the recommendation back to the Sub-Committee, saying that they should think in terms of the Truro Room remaining the Silence Room and that the main room, now mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Balfour of Inchrye, should be, as it has always been supposed to be, a Non-Smoking Room. The Library Sub-Committee having had this instruction given to them, and being a very obedient Committee, then returned the matter to the Offices Committee with that recommendation. The Offices Committee, to my annoyance and to some extent to the annoyance of the Library Sub-Committee, had that recommendation turned down, and the recommendation which you now see before you is the recommendation of the Offices Committee to the Library Committee. This is the sequence of events which has produced this recommendation; and I may say that if this House does not accept this Report in this particular the whole thing will have to be gone into again in the light of the recommendation which will be made by this House to the Offices Committee and to the Library Sub-Committee. My Lords, I shall be glad to see the end of this.

THE MARQUESS OF WILLINGDON

My Lords, may I say that I have been a Member of this House for 25 years. Before this debate is concluded will some noble Lord tell me where the Truro Room is?

LORD CHAMPION

My Lords, the Truro Room is next to the Refreshment Room and the Guests' Room; and the noble Marquess will see just inside the door a bell which can be rung, or which, in the old days, could be rung, and refreshments would be brought in. This facility is no longer available.

THE MARQUESS OF WILLINGDON

And, presumably, that is to be the Silence Room in future?

LORD CHAMPION

That is so.

LORD BALFOUR OF INCHRYE

My Lords, if the main room has always been considered a Non-Smoking Room, how is it that there are ash trays, matches and places in which to put cigarettes and cigars? Who did the monstrous unauthorised act of putting those things there?

LORD CHAMPION

My Lords, that occurred because smokers are a very undisciplined lot, and I am sure that the noble Lord is one of them.

THE EARL OF SWINTON

My Lords, I wonder whether the noble Lord recollects the advice given by Lord Melbourne on one occasion:"If only they would have the goodness to leave it alone and leave us as we are!"

THE EARL OF LISTOWEL

My Lords, your Lordships have heard something of the family arguments that go on between the Offices Committee and its Sub-Committee on the Library. I should only like to point out to noble Lords that the question of the Non-Smoking Room on the left of the main entrance to the Library is not yet decided because it is subject to the decision of the Library Sub-Committee, and any noble Lord who wishes to express a view at a meeting of the Library Sub-Committee is entitled to attend. With that, my Lords, I beg to move that this Report be approved.

On Question, Motion agreed to.