HL Deb 11 November 1969 vol 305 cc522-3

2.42 p.m.

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will permit those who have a conscientious objection to war to allocate the proportion of their income tax devoted to defence to education, health, the social services and other civilian purposes.]

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, I understand the conscientious feelings to which my noble friend refers, but I can hold out no hope that the Government will be able to make arrangements on the lines he suggests. Tax revenues arc paid into a common pool, and it is not possible to retain the identity of individual payments, much less to direct them to specific ends. Even if it were possible there would be powerful objections of principle to such an arrangement.

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, while thanking my noble friend for that Answer, may I say that I do not endorse that attitude—indeed, I think it is illogical. Is my noble friend aware that persons dedicated to public service are taking, this view and does he think it desirable to penalise them, particularly when there would be no loss to the Revenue if this proposal were carried out?

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, I do not think there is any question of penalising anyone. If anyone accepts the responsibilities and privileges of citizenship in this country I think he must do so on an unqualified basis. It is impossible to have citizenship on a limited liability basis.

LORD CARRINGTON

My Lords, I wonder whether Her Majesty's Government would permit me to re-allocate that proportion of my income tax allocated to answering Lord Brockway's Questions to defence.

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that I should be delighted? But may I ask him—and I put it seriously—whether he is aware that there is now a growing feeling of personal non-commitment to war, particularly as the young are growing up? Would it not be desirable to try to find some arrangement to meet these convictions which would avoid a recurrence to-day of the Nonconformist refusal in 1908 to pay taxes for Anglican teaching?

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, I did not take the supplementary question of the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, as not being intended seriously. There is a serious point here. At any given time there are always people who have conscientious objections to pretty nearly everything that any Government ever do. My noble friend talks about the feeling at the present time, but I would put this thought to him. This year seems to me an odd moment to press this point, at a time when the British Army in Northern Ireland, by sheer leadership, are leading civilians into a non-violent way of life.