HL Deb 23 July 1969 vol 304 cc1041-3

General")

Page 84, line 11, at end insert— ("(7A) References to an approved school order in this paragraph, except in subparagraph (2) (a), include references to an order of the competent authority under subsection (1) of section 83 of the Act of 1933 and such an order as is mentioned in subsection (3) of that section; and in relation to those orders this paragraph shall have effect as if for sub-paragraph (2) (a) there were substituted the following—

The noble Lord said: My Lords, I beg to move Amendments Nos. 55 and 56 together. Paragraph 7 (2) of Schedule 4 provides that, on the appointed day, persons under 19 subject to approved school orders shall be deemed to be subject to a care order made by the court which made the approved school order on the same day as that order. The new subparagraph inserted by Amendment 55 makes similar provision for those persons subject to orders made under Section 83 of the Children and Young Persons Act 1933. This section enables persons detailed in a school in Scotland or Northern Ireland to be transferred to an approved school in England, and persons subject to approved school orders made in the Channel Islands or the Isle of Man to be received into an approved school in England. All such persons are treated in like manner as persons subject to an approved school order made in England by a juvenile court, that is to say, they are deemed to be subject to an English care order. It really is a translation of a continuing type of sentence—if one may call it that; although it is no longer. It is a translation into the nearest similar thing that we shall have under the Bill so that a child will get the same kind of treatment as he would have got if he had been able to stay in the area where the sentence was passed.

So far as children from the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man are concerned (there are only a few such children) it is not thought necessary to make special and complicated transitional provisions. Administrative arrangements will be made for the insular authority to reimburse the local authority for the cost of maintaining the child. I beg to move.

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

LORD STONHAM

My Lords, I beg to move Amendment No. 57. This Amendment inserts a new paragraph 12 of Schedule 4. The paragraph contains transitional provisions on supervision orders made under the Children and Young Persons Acts 1933 to 1963 which are in force on the date when the new code of supervision in Clauses 11 to 19 comes into force.

Amendment moved—

Page 84, line 46, leave out paragraph 12 and insert— ("12.—(1) Where a supervision order under the Children and Young Persons Acts 1933 to 1963 is in force on the date when this paragraph comes into force or where an order under section 52 of the Act of 1963 (whether made before, on or after that date) falls to be treated by virtue of subsection (3) of that section as a supervision order under the Act of 1933, the order and, in relation to the order, any enactment amended or repealed by this Act shall, subject to the following provisions of this paragraph, have effect as if this Act had not been passed; and the order may be altered or revoked accordingly. (2) A juvenile court before which the person to whom such a supervision order relates is brought after the date aforesaid in pursuance of subsection (1) of section 66 of the Act of 1933 shall not have power to make such an order as is mentioned in that subsection in respect of him but shall instead have power to revoke the supervision order and make a care order in respect of him on being satisfied that he is unlikely to receive the care or control he needs unless the court makes a care order; and section 6 (1) of the Act of 1963 shall not apply in a case where the court exercises its power under this sub-paragraph. (3) Where such a supervision order contains a provision requiring residence in an institution which has become a community home, the provision shall be construed as requiring residence in the home; and in such a case any reference to an institution of the kind in question in rules under the Criminal 1948 c. 58. Justice Act 1948 providing for the making of payments to the body or person by whom the institution is managed shall be construed as a reference to the home. (4) References to a supervision order in sub-paragraphs (2) and (3) of this paragraph include references to an order under the said section 52.")—(Lord Stonham.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD STONHAM

My Lords, I should be grateful if your Lordships would consider with this Amendment No. 58, Amendments Nos. 59 and 73. These Amendments make transitional provisions in relation to Scotland in the period before the relevant provisions of the Social Work (Scotland) Act come into force. I beg to move Amendments Nos. 58 and 59.

Amendments moved—

Page 85, line 46, at end insert: ("15A. Nothing in paragraph 26 of Schedule 5 to this Act shall affect the operation of section 2 (4) of the Children Act 1958 in relation 1958 c. 65. to a supervision order made under the Children and Young Persons 1937 c. 37. (Scotland) Act 1937.")

Page 85, line 46, at end insert: ("15B. Nothing in Schedule 6 to this Act shall affect the operation of section 15 (3) of the Adoption 1958 c. 5 Act 1958 in relation to a fit person (7 & 8 order made under the Children Eliz. 2). and Young Persons (Scotland) Act 1937.")

—(Lord Stonham.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

LORD STONHAM

My Lords, I beg to move Amendment No. 60. These are temporary transitional provisions between the new English system and the existing Scottish system which will last for only a few months and which I foreshadowed and explained on an earlier Amendment.

Amendment moved—

Page 85, line 50, at end insert:

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