HL Deb 17 April 1969 vol 301 cc187-9
LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will respond to the renewed proposal of the Warsaw Pact Powers that a conference should be held to end the division of Europe by military blocs and to further the peaceful co-operation of European States and peoples.]

THE MINISTER OF STATE, FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (LORD CHALFONT)

My Lords, as my noble friend will have seen from the communiqué issued on April 11, at the conclusion of the recent NATO Ministerial meeting in Washington (copies of which have been placed in the Library of the House), the Allies propose, while remaining in close consultation, to explore with the Soviet Union and the other countries of Eastern Europe which concrete issues best lend themselves to fruitful negotiation and an early resolution". Her Majesty's Government intend to play a full part in this process.

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, in giving qualified welcome to that statement may I ask my noble friend whether this is not the third time that the Warsaw Pact Powers have proposed a conference to end the confrontation in Europe? In view of the very hopeful movements towards a détente illustrated in the speech of President Nixon would it not be possible to try to secure a meeting between representatives of NATO and the Warsaw Pact, with a view to bringing about a European Security Pact?

LORD CHALFONT

My Lords, of course it would be an excellent thing if we could get European and other countries together on this issue; and when we are talking of NATO we must remember that it consists not only of European countries. Of course it would be a good thing if we got together. I must confess that I personally can see nothing new in the latest statement by the Warsaw Pact countries—that of March 17. The Budapest statement seems to me to contain nothing new and to reiterate certain unacceptable preconditions to this kind of conference. I must also draw the attention of my noble friend, in case he has not seen it, to the statement made by the Soviet Government on April 10, some time after the Budapest declaration, which was a highly polemical statement and leads me to believe that if this is the position of the Soviet Union there would not be very much use in having a conference on European security at all.

LORD LEATHERLAND

My Lords, will Her Majesty's Government be on their guard against any attempt by the Eastern bloc to separate the Western European countries from the United States of America and thus leave them at the mercy of anybody who cared to roll across Europe?

LORD CHALFONT

My Lords, I am much in sympathy with what my noble friend says. We consider that all members of NATO have a vital interest in the security of Europe, and that is why we believe that in any conference of this kind the North American members of NATO must be associated in it from the Outset.

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, is it not the case that this Party when in Opposition was strongly in favour of the Rapacki proposals for disengagement in Central Europe? And in view of that fact is it not desirable, even from the point of view of the liberalisation of Czechoslovakia and the Eastern European countries, that this confrontation of military blocs should be ended?

LORD CHALFONT

My Lords, I think my noble friend over-simplifies when he says that this Party in Opposition supported the Rapacki proposals. Certain members of it did. Others had reservations about the actual Rapacki plan, which dealt specifically with military disengagement in Central Europe. I would remind my noble friend, as I am sure he is aware, that military disengagement on its own is not really a solution to political problems. Political problems have to a large extent to be solved before military disengagement can take place. I think those two things are closely linked together. In any case, this is not quite the subject of the original Question, which was on a European security conference; and if my noble friend would like to put down a Question on military disengagement in Central Europe I should be pleased to answer it.

LORD GLADWYN

My Lords, would not the noble Lord agree that it would in any case be essential to have some kind of preliminary agreement between the super Powers on the future of Germany before any security conference of the type suggested would be likely to meet with any success?

LORD CHALFONT

My Lords, certainly I agree with the noble Lord that the major political problem of Europe at the moment is the division of Europe and the division that goes through the centre of Germany. Until there is some sign that people on the other side are prepared at least to discuss this subject it seems to me that a European security conference would have little chance of success.