HL Deb 27 February 1968 vol 289 cc697-8

2.45 p.m.

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will propose at the Geneva Disarmament Conference that all testing of nuclear weapons shall cease.]

LORD CHALFONT

My Lords, Her Majesty's Government support the proposal for a comprehensive nuclear test ban treaty, banning all nuclear weapon tests in all environments. We have frequently made this clear at the Eighteen-Nation Disarmament Committee and elsewhere. The outstanding obstacle to progress remains, however, the problem of verification.

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, expressing appreciation of that Answer, may I ask my noble friend whether it is not the fact that, at the last meeting of the Geneva Conference, the delegate from Sweden stated that since the ban on overground tests there had been 47 underground tests, all of which had been observed: and, in view of the fact that it is now possible technically to Identify underground tests, why is there still on the part of many nations at the Geneva Conference opposition to banning them as well?

LORD CHALFONT

My Lords, I think the whole difficulty is contained in that very question. The statement that there have been 47 tests, and that all have been observed, is not strictly intellectually accurate. What has happened is that 47 tests have been observed. No one knows how many tests have been made and not observed. The fact is that scientifically we are still not able to be absolutely certain of detecting underground tests absolutely and finally. The only way of making a final judgment is to carry out an inspection on the site which would put the matter beyond doubt. The Soviet Union has categorically rejected any onsite inspection of doubtful underground events.

LORD GRANVILLE OF EYE

My Lords, in view of my noble friend's Answer, does he not consider the time has come to make a statement en the progress of the Disarmament Conference at Geneva?

LORD CHALFONT

My Lords, I will certainly bear that in mind and ask my noble friend, to arrange it, if it can be arranged through the usual channels.

LORD STRANGE

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that Holland has made a mini-machine for producing nearly as much material for warfare and for power as all the small nations require?

LORD CHALFONT

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for drawing my attention to that fascinating development, but it has nothing to do with the testing of nuclear weapons, either underground or elsewhere.