HL Deb 27 February 1968 vol 289 cc695-7

2.43 p.m.

VISCOUNT NORWICH

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government how much money has been spent in the last three years on the Imperial War Museum.]

BARONESS PHILLIPS

My Lords, £224,000 in the financial year 1964–65, £351,200 in 1965–66 and £448,900 in 1966–67.

VISCOUNT NORWICH

My Lords, while thanking the noble Baroness for that Answer, in view of these staggering figures and the Government's recent undertaking to maintain the proposed R.A.F. museum at Hendon, may I ask whether the refusal of Her Majesty's Government to subscribe one penny to wards the British Theatre Museum (which already exists) does not indicate that something is wrong in the relative importance attached by the Government to the arts of war and peace?

BARONESS PHILLIPS

My Lords, I am sure the noble Viscount will agree that a museum of this kind has a social content and does not consist merely of replicas of old battles. Certainly during my educational career I have taken many children to the Imperial War Museum, and have found the visits utterly invaluable. Equally, I would agree with the noble Viscount that the Theatre Museum also has a great social content, but I would assume that it is not a question of "either/or". Possibly the Arts Council may be able to assist in the case of that museum.

LORD LEATHERLAND

My Lords, would my noble friend bear in mind that few people make large sums of money out of the Army whereas many do out of the theatre; and could not the Theatre Museum rely upon them for support?

VISCOUNT NORWICH

My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord—

THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR COMMONWEALTH AFFAIRS (LORD SHEPHERD)

My Lords, the noble Viscount can address his question to the Minister but not to my noble friend behind me.

VISCOUNT NORWICH

My Lords, I should like to ask the Minister whether she does not agree that the fact that a great many people may make a certain amount of money out of the theatre—and the theatre is, on average, the least well paid of all the professions—in no way diminishes the artistic value of the theatre; and does she not agree that there is a very considerable, and I would say shameful, disproportion between the figure of roughly £1 million spent on the Imperial War Museum and nothing at all on that of the theatre?

BARONESS PHILLIPS

My Lords, I am not quite sure where I intervene in this debate. Perhaps it would be correct to say that the Services are not necessarily a very highly paid profession, though one would agree equally that the theatre is not very well paid. But I am quite sure that the noble Viscount would agree that there is a case for retaining a museum of this kind, and one hopes that his own museum will receive some help in the future.

VISCOUNT NORWICH

I thank the noble Baroness for that assurance.

LORD INGLEWOOD

My Lords, may I ask the noble Baroness this question? Whereas the majority of us would support her in the proper maintenance of the Imperial War Museum, does it not seem strange, really beyond all understanding, that we can spend nearly half a million pounds on this museum and not a shilling on the Territorial Army?

VISCOUNT MONTGOMERY OF ALAMEIN

My Lords, may I ask the noble Baroness this question? What the noble Lord who is a member of my regiment said just now is very true—there is no doubt that we soldiers are very badly paid. I would also say—

SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS

Question.

VISCOUNT MONTGOMERY OF ALAMEIN

I would also ask the noble Baroness whether she thinks the museum referred to by the noble Viscount (whose father I knew very well) really makes a major contribution to the art and the conduct of war? I should have thought it made no contribution.

BARONESS PHILLIPS

My Lords, I should like to thank the noble and gallant Viscount for his contribution.