§ LORD AUCKLANDMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are satisfied that the fire safety regulations are adequate in respect of mental hospitals and other establishments for mentally and physically handicapped persons; and how frequently, on average, fire safety drills, and other precautions are put in practice in those establishments under the jurisdiction of the National Health Service.]
§ THE PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF HOUSING AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT (LORD KENNET)My Lords, all hospital authorities have comprehensive standing guidance about fire precautions, which takes full account of the fact that many of the people who would be at risk would be physically or mentally handicapped. No statistics are available showing the average frequency with which fire drills or other precautions are put into practice in individual hospitals, but the guidance I have referred to stresses the importance of holding such drills at least twice a year. The Government attach great importance to this matter, and earlier this year all hospital authorities were again reminded of the need to conform to the guidance issued.
§ LORD AUCKLANDMy Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that careful reply, may I ask him whether he is aware of the great concern arising out of the tragic fire at Shelton Hospital, in Shropshire? Can he say whether any of our older mental hospitals have barred windows? And can he further say whether 628 he is satisfied that there is adequate staffing of locked wards, particularly where smoking is allowed, as there is evidence, particularly from the tragic fire in Glasgow, that inflammable substances and cigarettes can be a major cause of these tragedies?
§ LORD KENNETMy Lords, the report on the tragic fire at Shelton has been received by my right honourable friend. He is considering it at the moment and intends to place copies of it in the Libraries of both Houses very shortly. On the question of bars, the guidance to which I referred contains a comprehensive section on escape routes, which I commend to the noble Lord's attention, and both the guidance and a recent updating of it have sections advising the proper course to hospital authorities as regards smoking.
§ LORD DERWENTMy Lords, does the noble Lord think that twice a year is sufficient, because both patients and staff are apt to change? Would not it be preferable to have these fire drills at least once a quarter?
§ LORD KENNETMy Lords, I will bring that point to the attention of my right honourable friend.
§ LORD AMULREEMy Lords, arising out of the noble Lords reply to the first supplementary, I did not quite understand whether it is now the policy to do away entirely with barred windows in mental hospitals or whether some mental hospitals keep their barred windows.
§ LORD KENNETMy Lords, I was not asked that question. It is certainly the policy to get rid of barred windows and locked doors, and all such things, from mental hospitals. Whether there are still some hospitals with barred windows I cannot say without notice.
§ LORD TREFGARNEMy Lords, apart from the question of barred windows, can the noble Lord say whether there are any mental hospitals for children where the children are restrained in their beds, as was the case in a recent fire in France, when some children were killed?
§ LORD KENNETMy Lords, I cannot answer that question without notice.