§ 2.26 p.m.
§ LORD CLIFFORD OF CHUDLEIGHMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will restore to the citizens of Australia and New Zealand the free access to and right of residence in this country which they have traditionally enjoyed.]
§ THE MINISTER OF STATE, HOME OFFICE (LORD STONHAM)My Lords, the Commonwealth Immigrants Act 1962 applies to all Commonwealth countries. The Government do not propose to 1042 amend the law so as to discriminate in favour of particular Commonwealth countries.
§ LORD CLIFFORD OF CHUDLEIGHMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his Answer. May I ask him three supplementary questions? First, is he aware of the following facts: that the rights I refer to in my Question have been enjoyed by these two countries since they were founded; that the Australian and New Zealand Governments are the only Governments which have invariably supported Her Majesty's Government in the United Nations and Commonwealth Conferences and Parliamentary meetings; that in the last three wars in which this country has been involved they have sent troops—all volunteers—South, West and around Suez, to the aid of this country. I make no comment on our lack of support for them in their defence at the present time, or on the fact that this country's inhabitants are still welcome without any of the insults of work permits and immigration officials. Secondly, would the noble Lord not be thoroughly ashamed—
§ THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR COMMONWEALTH AFFAIRS (LORD SHEPHERD)My Lords, may I suggest to the noble Lord that the purpose of Question Time is to elicit information and not to make, as I gather he was making, a statement. I hope the noble Lord will bear that in mind.
§ LORD CLIFFORD OF CHUDLEIGHWill the noble Lord then cancel what I have said so far? My first question, then, is: Would not the noble Lord be thoroughly ashamed of himself and his Government and this country if he had received the letter that I received this morning from a New Zealander? The writer says:
I fought hard for Britain during the last war and also lost my brothers, who willingly sacrificed themselves for their mother country. I find it most embarrassing that now I am in England visiting a sister who is dying with cancer, to have to beg the Home Office to allow me an extension of time here. I thought we were considered one people.My second question is: When am I going to be arrested? I was born an Australian and have an Australian passport; I have no work permit, and I work hem Is it not illogical—and I presume 1043 your Lordships have read the papers recently—that somebody less fortunate than I am should have been even temporarily incarcerated for that same offence?
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, I did not seek any protection from the noble Lord in the questions he asked, and I do not propose to refrain from answering them. The rights in question, it is true, have been enjoyed by these countries since they were founded. But the noble Lord is completely wrong to suggest that those rights are no longer enjoyed in substantial measure. More than 83,000 Australians, and more than 24,000 New Zealanders, freely came to this country last year. The noble Lord is quite wrong to suggest that these are the only two countries of the Commonwealth that have made great sacrifices for the Mother Country. Has he forgotten Canada? Last year 135,000 Canadian citizens came freely to this country and enjoyed our amenities, and we welcomed them. Has he forgotten India, Pakistan, African countries or the West Indies, all of whom have made, and continue to make, great contributions to the British Commonwealth? That is why I declined to accept the protection of my noble friend Lord Shepherd and not answer the noble Lord's first question.
So far as the letter from his New Zealand friend is concerned, I dispute strongly that the writer had to beg (which was the expression used) the Home Office for an extension. In cases of this kind when it is necessary to stay longer than the specified period on the entry certificate or the agreement made when the person entered, permission is always granted without question. The noble Lord is well aware, from the cases which he has raised with me, how willing and helpful we are in this matter. Indeed, had I known he was going to produce letters I should have produced his letters to convince the House of this fact.
Finally, on the question of when the noble Lord is going to be arrested, my understanding of the situation is that, whatever his antecedents are, he is domiciled in Devon and has been there for a long time. He is most active in civil defence in that area, and I hope that he will so continue, with complete immunity, for a long time to come.
§ LORD WADEMy Lords, is the noble Lord able to give any figures of the number of citizens of Australia and New Zealand who have desired free access and the right of residence, and have been denied it?
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, not without notice. But I should like to assure the noble Lord, Lord Wade, that we have had virtually no complaint whatsoever from citizens of New Zealand or of Canada with regard to our immigration procedures in general. It is true that at the end of last year we had some complaints from Australia which received a lot of publicity. My honourable friend Mr. Ennals and the Minister of the Commonwealth Office discussed these complaints with Australian officials here, and after full investigation, found that in no case was there the least vestige of any ground for complaint.
§ LORD AUCKLANDMy Lords, can the noble Lord say what is the position with regard to nurses, particularly student nurses who come over to this country from New Zealand upon an exchange visit? Bearing in mind that the period of training is sometimes two to three years, can he say whether they are committed to these regulations?
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, no. They are committed only in the sense that they are expected to carry out the bargain into which they enter when they come to this country. It may help the noble Lord if he examines the figures for New Zealand. Total admissions last year from New Zealand were 24,197—long-term visitors, 4,420; short-term visitors, 11,868; which means that there are over 12,000 other visitors, who would mainly be students, to make up the figure. I think that is the answer to the noble Lord's question.
THE MARQUESS OF WILLINGDONMy Lords, could the noble Lord tell us how long is the delay in obtaining permission from the Home Office?
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, Commonwealth citizens who come here as visitors—
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, it is just the question of the issue of a voucher.
1045 It would come under a Class B voucher. It would depend largely on the hospital concerned; they have to satisfy themselves. Once the hospital fix up with the student nurse and the voucher is granted, there is virtually no delay except that of getting here.