§ 2.30 p.m
§ LORD BALFOUR OF INCHRYEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are aware of the further threat to Atlantic salmon stocks by the increase of drift net ships of several nations operating off the Greenland coasts from two in 1965 to ten in 1967, and what action can be taken without delay to safeguard Scottish employment dependent on Scottish salmon rivers.]
§ THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR SCOTLAND (LORD HUGHES)My Lords, we are aware of the increase this year in drift net fishing for salmon on the high seas off Greenland. Reports we have received indicate that vessels from the Faroes, Norway and Denmark have been taking part in this fishery. As I have told your Lordships in the past, any regulatory measures depend on securing international agreement by the nations involved. Discussion of the problem at this year's meeting of the International Commission for the North West Atlantic Fisheries made it clear that such agreement could not be looked for without first obtaining scientific evidence about the effect of developing fisheries on the stocks and the need to protect them. To this end we are continuing, and indeed increasing, our scientific investigations.
I am glad to add that if the catches off Greenland in the last few years are having the effect feared by the noble Lord there must be compensating factors 38 at work at present, since all the indications are that this year's run of fish entering Scottish rivers has been extremely good.
§ LORD BALFOUR OF INCHRYEMy Lords, arising out of the Minister's reply, which I am afraid does not give me much satisfaction—nor do I think that it will give the salmon much satisfaction—may I ask whether he is aware that I am not asking so much for a safeguarding of employment immediately, as for a safeguarding of employment for years ahead, when salmon stocks will be depleted through the Greenland depredations? Furthermore, if we wait for final scientific proof, shall we not wait indefinitely, because it would appear that no scientist ever comes to a definite conclusion, but always thinks he can do better to-morrow?
§ LORD HUGHESMy Lords, if the salmon were in the position of the noble Lord and were putting a question on their own behalf, I should probably be able to give a more satisfactory answer. We must, however, rest on the information we have and the information which we seek to collect. I must say that if the matter were entirely in our own hands we probably would not wish to wait for three or four years. As I have said, we must depend on agreement reached between the nations concerned, and they will not act together until they are furnished with the necessary scientific evidence in this matter.
§ LORD FRASER OF LONSDALEMy Lords, in regard to the question of acting alone, is not the British market the one which pays the highest price for salmon in the world, and is it not in the power of the Government to say that we will not buy this salmon? That would effectively stop the men from going to catch it.
§ LORD HUGHESMy Lords, I am afraid that that is another question and bears upon general trading policy, which it would not perhaps be in the best interests that I should answer at this time.
§ LORD NUGENT OF GUILDFORDMy Lords, is the noble Lord able to tell us whether it was possible to reach agreement at this year's meeting of the International Commission on the scientific evidence which would be needed to convince all the member countries that 39 measures were required to protect this fishery?
§ LORD HUGHESMy Lords, I think there is agreement on the methods which can be adopted to attempt to get the information. What we must wait and see is whether or not, when this evidence has been gathered in sufficient detail, it will be convincing to those who we must accept may not wish to be convinced.