§ 2.34 p.m.
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government how their proposed figure of 50,000 acres per annum of State afforestation in Scotland after 1975, announced by the Prime Minister on October 19, is to be divided between the Highland Board area and the rest of Scotland; what is the method of calculation by which this figure has been worked out; and what types of plantable land are intended to have priority in this new planting programme.]
§ LORD HUGHESMy Lords, the Government have asked the Forestry Commission to reach an annual planting programme of 50,000 acres in Scotland by 1976. It is too early to say how this will be shared between the area of the Highlands and Islands Development Board and the rest of Scotland. As announced in the White Paper on the Scottish Economy, published in January, 1966, the Commission's current planting programme in Scotland is planned to reach 36,000 acres a year from 1969 onwards, and this will include 20,000 acres a year in the crofting counties. The Highlands will share in the further increase to 50,000 acres, and there is scope for expansion both in the upland areas on the fringe of the Highland counties and in the southern uplands which are close to the wood-using industries. The Commission will be looking in these areas, in conjunction with the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries for Scotland, for suitable land which can be planted without detriment to the general level of agricultural production.
40 The figure of 50,000 acres represents a realistic target having regard to the availability of land, labour and finance. The Commission will reach this by stages, starting in 1969. Broadly speaking, the Commission will be planting on much the same type of land as it has planted in recent years.
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEMy Lords, I should like to thank the noble Lord for the full information he has given about this new target, which I very much hope will be successfully attained. May I ask him two supplementary questions? First, will the Government publish a White Paper, which I think is usual and which I hope they could do fairly soon, showing how this new programme is going to be phased and planned? It would be very helpful if they could do so. The other question is whether there will be any parallel change in the English forestry programme. Is the noble Lord aware that the latest figure for the State forestry annual planting in England is 13,000 acres, compared with 32,000 in Scotland, which is now to be stepped up to 50,000, and that the figures for private grant-aided planting are 4,000 in England, compared with 15,000 in Scotland? Will it not soon become very inconvenient to everybody that the headquarters of the Forestry Commission should be in Basingstoke?
§ LORD HUGHESMy Lords, the suggestion about a White Paper I will gladly bring to the attention of my right honourable friend the Secretary of State. On the second question, the noble Lord places me in the position of having divided loyalties. As a Minister interested in the expansion of forestry to the greatest possible extent, I should hope that the answer in England would be that they would follow the excellent example which is being set in Scotland; but I do not know whether they are in a position to do so. Furthermore, I am conscious of the fact that if they did so we should encourage the mistake which was originally made by our predecessors in deciding that the headquarters should be placed at Basingstoke.
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that whoever made the mistake is of very little importance compared with what can be done about it? Is he aware that the 41 statement made in March, 1964, when the last Government were in office, was that part of the English directorate would be moved to Basingstoke, and that we were not told until February, 1965, that "part of the English directorate" was really to include the headquarters of the Forestry Commission? Is he aware that Mr. Noble, who was the Secretary of State for Scotland, did not suspect in the least that the phrase "part of the English directorate" was supposed to refer to the headquarters of the Commission. Does it not seem possible that at some time between March, 1964, and February, 1965, someone may have managed to "pull a fast one" on the Scottish Office?
§ LORD HUGHESMy Lords, it is possible, but unlikely. I cannot accept any responsibility for the misconceptions under which Mr. Noble may have been labouring during the last months when he was Secretary of State. Furthermore, I agree that it is immaterial who made the mistake. I regret that the previous Administration did not make it sufficiently late in time to enable us to reverse it.
§ LORD STRATHCLYDEMy Lords, would the noble Lord be good enough to ask the Forestry Commission not to plant so close to the roads as to obscure the view of the surrounding countryside? If planting goes on as it is at present, the day will come when one will travel throughout the whole of the Highlands of Scotland through tunnels made by roads.
§ LORD HUGHESMy Lords, that seems to me to be a valid point, to which I shall be happy to direct the Commission's attention.