§ 2.39 p.m.
§ THE EARL OF PERTHMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government how long it will take to construct the second runway at Turnhouse, once the decision has been taken to go ahead.]
§ LORD WALSTONMy Lords, it will take about four and half years.
§ THE EARL OF PERTHMy Lords, this is a most shocking figure. May I ask whether it includes the time needed to deal with such items as the acquisition of the necessary land and the drawing up of plans and specifications?—because your Lordships will know that if there were any objection to the acquisition of land the need for a public inquiry would arise and the delay could be even greater. Could the noble Lord tell us whether this matter of the acquisition of land is 737 included, and, if not, whether the Government would now start taking the necessary steps to get the land for the purpose?
§ LORD WALSTONMy Lords, that figure takes account of all the operations that would have to be done. The actual detailed engineering, planning and construction would take about three and half years. Land acquisition and planning approval, which of course would include a public inquiry, if one were considered necessary, would probably take about 18 months to two years. But those periods could to some extent overlap, and, as I said, the overall time would be in the neighbourhood of four and a half years from the time the decision was actually taken to go ahead.
§ LORD HARLECHMy Lords, have I heard aright? Would it really take four and half years to construct another runway? I heard on the radio this morning that the United States have constructed a 9,000 ft. runway in three months.
§ LORD WALSTONMy Lords, the noble Lord did not hear exactly right. It will not take four and a half years to construct the runway; it will take three and a half years. Twelve months makes some difference, I submit. The three and a half years period includes the detailed' engineering planning, as well as the construction. I can certainly hold out no hopes that we can emulate the United States and construct this runway in nine months.
§ LORD STRATHCLYDEMy Lords, would the noble Lord see to it that these preliminary matters are gone ahead with at once, so that it will be less than four and a half years before the runway is operating?
§ LORD WALSTONMy Lords, as I said earlier, I hope that the decision as to whether or not this plan should be proceeded with will be taken in the very near future; and from then on it is estimated that four and a half years will elapse before the runway becomes operational.
§ LORD BALFOUR OF INCHRYEMy Lords, do the Government appreciate that if there is to be no new runway until 1972, that will mean that British Euro- 738 pean Airways will have to operate their new aircraft, and indeed their Tridents as well, in and out of Edinburgh with a severe economic penalty? Is that not a crazy way to try to run an airline?
§ LORD BYERSMy Lords, would the noble Lord say what are the major factors which lead to a period of three and a half years being required to design and engineer such a project? Surely this is not the first runway that has been constructed in this country.
§ LORD WALSTONMy Lords, it is not the first runway, but every runway is individual. We cannot buy them "off the peg" and lay them down; they have to be planned for the particular place in which they are being laid down. Indeed, unless this scheme were given absolute priority, not only over runways, but over many other schemes of civil engineering, which I think many noble Lords would feel at least equal with this, it would be impossible to do this in significantly less time.
§ LORD BLYTONMy Lords, could the noble Lord say whether this period would be reduced if we introduced a Bill to nationalise land?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, could the noble Lord at least give an assurance that the three-and-a-half years period includes all necessary works, including any necessary diversion and reconstruction of roads?
§ LORD WALSTONYes, my Lords, it does. That is a relevant point, because as the noble Lord well knows, there is a main road which at present conflicts with the proposed new runway, and therefore a new roadway would have to be built.
§ LORD HENDERSONMy Lords, could the noble Lord say how long the idea of having a new runway has been under consideration?
§ LORD WALSTONMy Lords, I am afraid I cannot give any specific answer to my noble friend, because a good deal of thought was given to this matter before the present Administration took office.
EARL ST. ALDWYNMy Lords, would the noble Lord admit that the American construction industry is more than twelve times as efficient as ours?
§ LORD WALSTONNo, my Lords, I certainly would not admit that.
§ LORD PARGITERMy Lords, would my noble friend ask the Department to look at the time it took to construct runways during the war, particularly for heavy bombers, to see whether this period could possibly be reduced?
§ LORD WALSTONMy Lords, I have already made it clear that the period could be reduced if this matter were given absolute priority over various other objectives. But, as I say, I think that not only noble Lords on both sides of the House, but the public at large, too, would complain, and justifiably so, if many other valuable and important civil engineering projects were pushed aside in order to make this runway.
§ THE EARL OF PERTHMy Lords, since it is possible to start at once on the necessary acquisition of land, may I ask once again that that be proceeded with now, rather than continuing the delay for an indefinite time?
§ LORD WALSTONMy Lords, this will not be delayed for an indefinite time, but I think the noble Earl realises full well that many interested parties have to be brought into consultation. In my view, it would not be right for Her Majesty's Government to ride roughshod over all those interests, and simply issue an edict that to-day this will be done.
§ LORD CHAMPIONMy Lords, will my noble friend make sure that he does not give this runway exceptional priority over roads that would be used by many more people than would a runway in this situation?
§ LORD WALSTONMy Lords, this runway will not be given undue priority; it will be given the priority which, in the opinion of Her Majesty's Government, it deserves.
§ EARL FORTESCUEMy Lords, would the noble Lord tell us by how many yards the proposed runway will overlap the present aerodrome?
§ LORD WALSTONMy Lords, I think I have that information here. Certainly 740 I have seen it myself on a map. It will be a considerably longer runway, and will require the acquisition of a considerable area of land. The new runway will be 8,400 feet long, and will be limited at one end by the existing railway, and at the other end by the proposed motorway.
§ THE EARL OF EFFINGHAMMy Lords, if this is as serious a problem as it appears to be, would my noble friend give me some indication of what will happen when the Concord becomes operative?
§ LORD WALSTONMy Lords, the Concord will not operate at this particular airport.
§ THE EARL OF EFFINGHAMMy Lords, I agree with my noble friend, but there will be other parts of Great Britain where it will become operative. How long will it take to build a runway from which it can be operated?
§ LORD WALSTONMy Lords, I suggest that that is another Question.