§ 2.48 p.m.
§ LORD LEATHERLANDMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are aware that items broadcast on I.T.V. on Tuesday, March 14, between 6.5 p.m. and 6.35 p.m., when many little children were listening, contained words of an offensive and obscene character; and whether measures can be taken through the State schools to counteract the effects which the use of this kind of T.V. language may have on small children.]
§ BARONESS PHILLIPSMy Lords, I assume that the noble Lord refers to the television programme, "Three After Six", broadcast on March 14. The Government are aware of the content of the programme, but it is for the Independent Television Authority to consider what was said in the course of it. They, like the B.B.C., are a public corporation, wholly responsible for the content of their programmes and with full authority over the services they provide.
741 The Government do not believe that it would be proper or sensible for them to seek to take measures through the schools as the noble Lord suggests. Control of the curriculum in schools is the responsibility of the local education authorities and the teachers. The best action the schools can take is to guide their pupils generally to acquire soundly based standards of usage, taste and judgment, rather than to try to react to particular incidents. Much current educational practice is directed to this end by means of relaxed and frequent conversation and discussion between staff and pupils on a wide range of topics and by the exchange of ideas and comments in an easy and natural atmosphere.
§ LORD LEATHERLANDMy Lords, philosophically, of course, that Answer, is an ideal one. But does my noble friend not feel that, although the kind of language used on that occasion might be acceptable in newspaper offices or sergeants' messes, it was hardly the kind of language for little children to hear between 6 and 6.30 on the night in question? Would my noble friend please ask the Government nominees on I.T.V. to give this matter their personal attention?
§ BARONESS PHILLIPSMy Lords, I think that I have nothing to add to what I have said in relation to the Government's concern in this matter; namely, these Corporations must control the contents of their own programmes. I think the noble Lord, Lord Hill of Luton, is in his place and will be listening to this discussion, and I am quite sure that he will take note of it. From my own recollection, when one appears on any Independent Television programme one is given a form to sign stating that no obscenities or unfortunate language will be used. Incidentally, I believe that another thing one must not do, is to incite to riot, and one has to sign to this effect. I hope that the programme authorities will look into why the undertaking I have mentioned was contravened on this occasion. But, as I have said, we must leave it to them.
§ LORD HARLECHMy Lords, is it possible that on this occasion I.T.V. were being guided by the words of the Post- 742 master General who recommended the use of four-letter words on television?
§ BARONESS PHILLIPSOf course, this is quite incorrect. As the noble Lord is well aware, the Postmaster General did not recommend the use of these words. I did take some note of that speech. The Postmaster General was making the same point as I am now making on behalf of Her Majesty's Government: that the Corporations themselves must be masters in their own house and control their own programmes.
§ LORD ROWLEYMy Lords, is it not a fact that the three words in question, according to my information, contained more than four letters?
§ BARONESS PHILLIPSI was waiting for some noble Lord to ask me that. One contains four letters; one contains seven letters and is a reflection on one's parentage, and one contains six letters, and I believe is used as a term of affection in certain counties.
§ LORD LEATHERLANDMy Lords, I quite understand noble Lords finding this matter highly amusing, but I happened to be sitting with my little grandchildren looking at that programme and it filled me with disgust. As I am a former company sergeant major, that is saying something.
§ BARONESS PHILLIPSMy Lords, I should like to say that I have the greatest personal sympathy with the noble Lord.
THE LORD BISHOP OF SOUTHWARKMy Lords, may I ask the noble Baroness if she will do what she can to help? While I do not think that anybody in this House wants to enforce a puritanical censorship, nevertheless those of us who are concerned with young people are deeply concerned when things like this happen on our broadcasting system. What is more it does very little to win the respect of people who come to this country from countries overseas.
§ BARONESS PHILLIPSMy Lords, I would, of course, endorse everything the right reverend Prelate says, and I think he will find that noble Lords who are members of the authorities can probably do more in this matter than the Government.