§ 2.36 p.m.
§ LORD ST. HELENSMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what estimate they have made of the number of permanent dwellings likely to be completed in Great Britain in 1966.]
§ THE PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF HOUSING AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT (LORD KENNET)My Lords, my right honourable friend the Minister of Housing and Local Government has said in the House of Commons that he expects about 380,000 houses to be completed in Great Britain in 1966.
§ LORD ST. HELENSMy Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for his Answer, may I ask what explanation the Government have for what was very aptly referred to by the political correspondent of The Times the other day as the
dismal failure to reach the vaunted plans to build 400,000 houses a year"?Furthermore, since the pledges of successive Ministers of Housing and Local Government have come to nothing, may I ask what changes in policy the Government envisage in order to complete their programme of 500,000 houses in 1970?
§ LORD KENNETMy Lords, I should be reluctant to accept the terminology of this or that political correspondent, whether about vaunted plans or dismal failures. The target, as the House well knows, is to reach 400,000 houses a year. As to changes in plans, I think it 1148 is common knowledge that all initiatives are affected to a certain extent by our present economic difficulties, and my right honourable friend's plans for increasing the output of houses must reflect those difficulties in their formulation.
§ LORD NEWTONYes, my Lords, but is not the estimate which the noble Lord has just given for 1966 particularly disappointing if one casts one's mind back to the much more optimistic view that he took when we debated the housing situation on the Motion by my noble friend Lord Hawke at the end of July?
§ LORD KENNETMy Lords, it is disappointing. But I should remind the House that the figure is about the same as last year's, which was a record figure, and was, in any case, considerably higher than the highest achieved by the Party opposite when they were in office.
§ LORD LINDGRENMy Lords, can my noble friend say what proportion of these houses is provided by local authorities and what proportion by New Towns or other organisations?
§ LORD KENNETMy Lords, I can give my noble friend the breakdown between public and private, but not, without further notice, the breakdown between local authorities and New Towns as such. The breakdown between public and private forecast for 1966 is 185,000 public starts and 200,000 public* starts. I would draw your Lordships' attention to the fact that the figures are starts and not completions.
§ LORD AUCKLANDMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether he has any figures relating to development areas where there is a great need for housing for those in the new industries going into them? Can he say what proportion of these figures relates to those areas?
§ LORD KENNETMy Lords, not without further notice. But, of course, the Government share the noble Lord's preoccupation with housing needs in development areas.
§ LORD COOPER OF STOCKTON HEATHMy Lords, would my noble friend agree that if we are to achieve these ambitious objectives, not only of 400,000 houses but of 500,000 houses,
*See col. 1149.1149 priority at the moment should be given to industrial investment rather than to social investment?
§ LORD KENNETMy Lords, perhaps that ranges rather far from the Question on the Order Paper.
THE LORD BISHOP OF LEICESTERMy Lords, I believe that the Minister, in answering the question on public and private allocation, by a slip of the tongue used the word "public" in regard to both figures. Would he kindly repeat the answer?
§ LORD KENNETI apologise to your Lordships. The figures are: forecast for 1966, 185,000 public starts and 200,000 private starts.
LORD HAWKEMy Lords, have the Government had any consultation with the brickmaking industry with a view to giving them guidance in planning their output for the spring?
§ LORD KENNETMy Lords, there are continuous consultations. The most recent took place at a meeting, on November 30, of a Working Party at which the housebuilders, the producers of building materials and the building societies were represented on all these matters.