HL Deb 13 May 1965 vol 266 cc174-7
BARONESS EMMET OF AMBERLEY

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will state:—

  1. (1) How many countries have ratified the United Nations Convention on the political rights of women;
  2. (2) Whether the United Kingdom have done so; and
  3. (3) If they have not done so, why not.]

THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (LORD WALSTON)

My Lords, the answer to the first part of the noble Baroness's Question is that 44 countries have either ratified, accepted, or declared themselves bound by the Convention. The answer to the second part of the Question is, No, the United Kingdom has not done so; and the answer to the third part of the Question is that the main reason for this is that the Convention does not include an express provision which would enable Her Majesty's Government to ratify it separately on behalf of the United Kingdom, on the one hand, and the various dependent territories, on the other. A proposal to include such a provision in this Convention at the time of its negotiation failed to obtain the necessary majority. We now wish to make sure that conditions, both here and in those territories, are broadly in line with the Convention before ratification. Her Majesty's Government are now undertaking a review of the position. If this shows, and I hope it will, that the Convention no longer presents difficulties for the United Kingdom itself, we shall then have to consider carefully such difficulties as remain in the dependent territories.

BARONESS EMMET OF AMBERLEY

My Lords, I am very grateful to the Minister for his reply, because it has taken the lines I hoped it would: that this matter will now be looked at once more in the light of present circumstances. This Convention was first passed about ten years ago, when I was at the United Nations, but at that time conditions in the Colonies made its ratification impossible. Now that there are so few Colonies left, I should have thought that some encouragement by Her Majesty's Government to put matters in line with the Convention, would make it possible for us ultimately to ratify it.

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord what prevents Her Majesty's Government from ratifying it for the United Kingdom alone, pending this inquiry?

LORD WALSTON

My Lords, we are still carrying out an inquiry in the United Kingdom as to whether, in fact, we are in line with all the provisions. One of the things which held us up in the initial stages was the provision which made it impossible for women to be represented in your Lordships' House. As we can, happily, see for ourselves, that difficulty has now been overcome. There is, however, still the question of equal pay for equal work, which is subject to the present investigation and inquiries.

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, in view of the fact that it was nearly 100 years ago that the trade unions of this country accepted the principle of equal pay, and that the Election Manifesto contained a promise that this Government would introduce it, can the noble Lord tell me why they have failed to do so?

LORD WALSTON

My Lords, as the noble Baroness well knows, this is primarily a matter for the Ministry of Labour and not for my Department. However, I would remind the noble Baroness that although the 100 days are up, we have been a Government for only six months, and it is not always possible to implement all our Election promises within that short space of time.

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, does the noble Lord not realise that 100 years are up, not 100 days?

BARONESS HORSBRUGH

My Lords, would the noble Lord say whether it is the policy of Her Majesty's Government in some way to enforce equal pay for women and men in the near future?

LORD WALSTON

My Lords, I can only repeat what I have already said, that this is primarily a matter for the Ministry of Labour. But as soon as we are satisfied that we have fulfilled all the conditions necessary for ratifying this Convention, in so far as the United Kingdom is concerned, we shall then have to move on to the wider question of the dependent territories.

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, I must ask the noble Lord one more question. Does he not realise, as a Parliamentarian and a politician, that this is a matter of Cabinet policy? The Cabinet decide upon a principle and then the Minister of Labour goes away and carries out the instructions of the Cabinet.

LORD SALTOUN

My Lords, may I ask Her Majesty's Government how it comes about that in this House, when questions are asked of Her Majesty's Government, a representative of Her Majesty's Government can put on one side a question by reason of the fact that it does not concern his Department? Questions are asked of Her Majesty's Government, and noble Lords expect Answers from Her Majesty's Government on the subject of the question.

THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (THE EARL OF LONGFORD)

My Lords, it depends on the kind of question. If the question goes very wide of the original Question, it is rather difficult to expect a Minister, who comes down well equipped to deal with the original Question, to answer one that has gone wide.