HL Deb 16 March 1965 vol 264 cc283-5

2.44 p.m.

LORD CONESFORD

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether the Director of Public Prosecutions has considered the following words printed on the cover of a record offered for sale under the title "Rolling Stones No. 2", and what action they intend to take: Cast deep into your pockets for loot to buy this disc of groovies and fancy words. If you don't have bread, see that blind man, knock him on the head, steal his wallet and lo and behold you have the loot. If you put in the boot, good. Another one sold."]

LORD STONHAM

My Lords, the attention of the Director of Public Prosecutions has been drawn to the noble Lord's Question. In his view, there is no evidence that these words have been published in circumstances constituting a criminal offence. He cannot, therefore, take any action about them.

LORD CONESFORD

My Lords, may I thank the Minister for his Answer? I would ask him if I have correctly understood that he is advised that inciting people to assault, rob and kick the blind is beyond the reach of the criminal law. If that is so, is there anything that Her Majesty's Government propose to do about it?

LORD STONHAM

My Lords, this particular matter is not one for my Department. As I am quite sure the noble Lord is aware, the Director of Public Prosecutions is by Statute and statutory regulations subject to the superintendence and direction of Her Majesty's Attorney General. He is not subject to the directions of the Government. I think, however, that we all agree that these words are offensive to a degree, but our advice is that they are not regarded as incitement to commit a criminal offence. If it is any consolation to the noble Lord, research which I made at the week-end supports the view that, even when they are intelligible, the words of a "pop" song are not considered important, and devotees pay even less regard to the "blurb" on the envelope.

LORD CONESFORD

My Lords, may I make it quite clear that I am not talking about the "pop" song at all? Is it not probable that, if a young man thinks this incitement to crime a good joke, he will consider committing the crime a better joke still? Has that aspect of the matter joke still? Has that aspect of the matter been considered by Her Majesty's Government, or is the provision of this sort of "blurb" part of the youth service?

LORD STONHAM

My Lords, incitements to crime are matters which have to be dealt with under the criminal law, but I trust that I have made it clear to your Lordships that in this particular matter the Home Office have no power; and also that the Director of Public Prosecutions, as I said in my original Answer, does not regard these words in the way in which they have been published as constituting a criminal offence. Therefore no action is called for on the part of Her Majesty's Government.

VISCOUNT DILHORNE

My Lords, the Government have recently announced that they propose to introduce a measure to deal with incitement to racial violence. Will not the Government also consider whether the ambit of that measure ought to include incitement to violence against the blind?

LORD STONHAM

My Lords, I will take note of what the noble and learned Viscount says, but I cannot seriously regard these words as being likely to be taken by any mentally normal person as encouragement or incitement to commit a crime.

LORD CONESFORD

My Lords, has the Director of Public Prosecutions or any other legal adviser of Her Majesty's Government considered whether this is not an obscene publication?

LORD STONHAM

My Lords, I indicated in my original Answer that the attention of the Director of Public Prosecutions had been directed to the noble Lord's Question, and I am quite sure that in his review of the words complained of he would have considered any offence which might have been committed.

LORD CONESFORD

My Lords, may I ask one final question? What steps have been taken by the Decca Company to withdraw this offensive publication, and to apologise for it?

LORD STONHAM

My Lords, that, of course, is not the responsibility of Her Majesty's Government, and I am not aware of any steps that have been taken. But I am very glad that the noble Lord has asked this Question, and I hope that Mr. Lewis, the chairman of the company (if he is still chairman), will take appropriate action in the matter, now and in the future.

LORD LEATHERLAND

My Lords, will my noble friend take care to see that the mere use of offensive words is not made a criminal offence, otherwise it would be extremely dangerous for any of us to refer to our fellow citizens as being "stark raving bonkers"?