§ 2.40 p.m.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government for which prisoners solitary confinement is retained.]
994§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, the Prison Rule authorising temporary segregation—that is, removal from association with other prisoners—is Rule 43. In practice this Rule applies to two distinct classes of prisoner. The first is those prisoners—the majority—who, for reasons of their own, ask to be segregated. The main reason for such requests is fear of other prisoners. Such requests are usually granted provided the Governor is satisfied that the request is genuine. The other class comprises prisoners who need to be segregated for reasons of good order and discipline, including security. In no case can segregation be imposed for a period of longer than 24 hours without the authority of a member of the Visiting Committee or Board of Visitors, or of the Secretary of State, and the authority thereby given, cannot exceed one month without reconsideration and renewal. Association must be resumed if in any case the medical officer so advises on medical grounds. The case of every segregated prisoner is considered in the Department at regular intervals, and no prisoner is kept under this Rule longer than is necessary in the interests either of his own safety or of good order and discipline.
Cellular confinement can be imposed upon any prisoner as a punishment for an offence under the Prison Rules. This can take place only after an adjudication either by the Governor, in which case the maximum period of cellular confinement is three days, or for more serious offences by the Visiting Committee or Board of Visitors, when the limit is 56 days.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, may I thank my noble friend for that very full Answer? May I ask him whether he is aware—and I speak from experience of eight months in solitary confinement—that it is quite impossible to segregate prisoners from communication, even in solitary confinement? Would he take into regard, particularly with the prisoners who are now doing long service for the train robbery, that solitary confinement may actually increase their determination and their means of escape, more than would association with other prisoners?
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, I agree that it is impossible to stop all communication between prisoners; in fact, 995 I said as much in the debate initiated by the noble Lord, Lord Derwent, on July 14. With regard to the train robbers, the escape of the prisoner Biggs from Wandsworth meant that until police investigations into the escape had reached provisional conclusions it was considered necessary to place the remaining train robbers under segregation. But these cases are being reviewed on their individual merits, and these men will be removed from the Rule as soon as this can be done safely.
§ LORD MANCROFTMy Lords, can the noble Lord say what is the average number of prisoners in solitary confinement at any one moment?
§ LORD STONHAMThe number under Rule 43—if that will answer the noble Lord's question—on July 10 last was 140, of whom 87 were there at their own request, 38 were long-term recidivists and 15 were violent or subversive prisoners.
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, am I to understand, from what the noble Lord read out about Rule 43, that it is possible for a man to be given this serious form of punishment not because he has committed an offence but simply because there is a shortage of staff?
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, I could not accept that it was solely because there was a shortage of staff. The train robbers are adequately supervised from the staff point of view. But I think we shall all agree that this was a particular and special case, and since we have to keep these men in safe custody, we were right to take special steps until the police have made their recommendations, and then these men will be released from Rule 43.
§ VISCOUNT DILHORNEMy Lords, can the noble Lord say what is the longest time any man now in prison has spent in solitary confinement?
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, I am afraid not, without notice, but it is nothing like the time that my noble friend suggested—eight months—except for Rule 43 segregation as distinct from solitary confinement. There are men, as I indicated, who elect to go on Rule 43 and we cannot persuade them not to. They are not in solitary confinement but they are segregated.
§ VISCOUNT DILHORNEMy Lords, could the noble Lord perhaps tell me, or find out, the longest time anyone has been segregated? I can think of one case where I have heard it said that there been segregation for years. I do not know whether this is true.
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, I am aware of cases where men have been segregated for years at their own request and where it is impossible to budge them. But I will get the answer to the noble and learned Viscount's question and write to him.
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord a supplementary, as this is a very serious matter? Am I to understand, then, that if these men are put into solitary confinement for security reasons alone—and he tells me that they are for only a short time—they are brought out when there are signs of psychological reaction, but that it is possible for them to be put back after they have sufficiently recovered?
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, if my noble friend is referring to involuntary confinement, what she suggests is not possible. I did make it clear that if a man had been "in solitary" for only a short time—a few days—and the medical officer said that he was not fit to continue, then he would be brought out.
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, would he be returned or is he out for good?
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, if a man is put "in solitary", it is subject to a decision by the visiting magistrates. It is for a term. It could be renewed only if they said so, and, a man whose health was affected in that way would not be put back again.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, one appreciates that, in the overcrowded conditions of prisons where sometimes three men occupy one cell, it may be the desire of a prisoner to be put in a cell by himself, but in those cases is exercise in common allowed, which would at least for 40 minutes in the day break the effects of solitary confinement?
§ LORD STONHAMMost certainly, my Lords. Rule 43 men are given the exercise and, indeed, they would exercise together. 997 If there was more than one Rule 43 man in a prison—and in some cases, as in the number I gave my noble friend, there are as many as eleven in one prison—all those Rule 43 men would exercise together and they would have the full period.