HL Deb 27 April 1965 vol 265 cc501-3

2.46 p.m.

LORD FRANCIS-WILLIAMS

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government how many children of school age, not classified as severely subnormal, are at present in mental subnormality hospitals and what educational facilities are available for them.]

LORD SORENSEN

My Lords, I regret that the information required by the first part of the Question is not available. Local education authorities have a statutory duty to see that appropriate educational treatment is provided for pupils who have any disability of mind or body unless, in the case of the mentally handicapped, the disability is so great as to render them unsuitable for education at school. Children in mental subnormality hospitals, provided that they have been correctly diagnosed and placed, would ordinarily be unsuitable for education at school, and it would not be the duty of the local education authorities to provide for their education.

LORD FRANCIS-WILLIAMS

My Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for his reply may I ask whether he is aware that a recent survey made by the British Psychological Society, covering seventeen such hospitals, indicated that 23 per cent. of children fell within the educable range of intelligence? In the light of this, could he also say what proportion of the staff dealing with these children are recognised by the Department of Education and Science as qualified teachers?

LORD SORENSEN

My Lords, I am aware that the British Psychological Society have undertaken a survey of children admitted to subnormality hospitals and of the educational facilities provided for them, but I understand that this report is still being considered by the Council of that Society, and, therefore, we must await its publication. When the report is published, the Minister and his Department will consider it.

LORD FRANCIS-WILLIAMS

My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether, when the report is considered, if its findings seem to be just, the Government will consider plans for closer liaison between local education authorities and hospital schools, so that the education work of hospital schools can be brought more closely into line with that available outside? May I further ask whether the Government will consider plans for setting up a national inspectorate for hospital schools, in order to ensure their efficiency?

LORD SORENSEN

My Lords, I am sure your Lordships appreciate the concern of the noble Lord about these matters. Obviously they are likely to be covered in the report and will provide material for careful consideration by the Ministry. I can only assure the noble Lord that I will convey his observations to the Minister. If the noble Lord has details of any particular cases of children in mental subnormality hospitals who are able to benefit from education and for whom no education is being provided, perhaps he would kindly bring these to our notice, for they will add to the information we have at present.

BARONESS WOOTTON OF ABINGER

My Lords, could the Minister explain the phrase in his original Answer when he said "provided the children have been correctly diagnosed". Is there an indication that there are children in hospitals for the mentally subnormal who ought never to be there?

LORD SORENSEN

My Lords, it does not necessarily follow, but, of course, mistakes are made everywhere. I should rather say that every effort is made to secure a correct diagnosis, but in this particular world of psychological medicine one cannot be as accurate as one desires. That is all.