§ 2.58 p.m.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government to list the International Treaties and Agreements which have been contravened by the recent decision to impose a 15 per cent. surcharge on imports coming into the United Kingdom.]
§ THE PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, BOARD OF TRADE (LORD RHODES)My Lords, certain parts of the following Agreements, to which the United Kingdom is a party may be held to have been contravened by the charge on imports: the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade; the European Free Trade Association Convention; the Agreement concerning commercial relations between the United Kingdom and the European Coal and Steel Community; Trade Agreements with Austrialia, New Zealand, India, South Africa, Southern Rhodesia, the Irish Republic. The EFTA Convention and the GATT, although they do not allow any derogation from commitments not to raise, or to reduce, import duties and 820 charges in case of balance-of-payments difficulties, permit the use of quantitative restrictions in such circumstances.
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for that informative Answer. Would he tell me whether the Government are ashamed of it?
§ LORD RHODESMy Lords, not ashamed; but regret its necessity.
§ LORD DILHORNEMy Lords, do Her Majesty's Government really consider that that is a right way to treat the breach of international treaties? I gather from the answer that the noble Lord admits that these were breaches of all those treaties he has listed.
§ LORD RHODESMy Lords, I think I gave a straight answer to a straight question. May I say that we are reinforced by important opinions elsewhere, because in this connection I am glad to see that the former Chancellor of the Exchequer himself said in another place on November 4:
I entirely agree with them"—
§ LORD RHODESIf I am contravening the Rules, I apologise. The former Chancellor of the Exchequer expressed the view that if this was the judgment and responsibility of the Government, as it was, they—meaning the Conservative Party—would not oppose in principle in any way at all that action should be taken; and he added that it was right to act directly on the balance of payments and not by "Stop-Go" or deflation.
§ THE EARL OF SWINTONMy Lords, may I ask the Minister two supplementary questions arising out of his Answer? The first is that, as he has admitted that all these conventions were broken, would it not have been wise to have had some consultation with the people whose conventions you were going to break before you did so? My second supplementary is this. Was there not an alternative method, by putting on restrictions, which would not have been a breach of any of those conventions?
§ LORD RHODESMy Lords, with regard to consultation, the Prime Minister sent a personal message to Commonwealth Prime Ministers and the Prime Minister of the Irish Republic, and the 821 Chancellor of the Exchequer to Commonwealth Finance Ministers; special messages were sent by the President of the Board of Trade to E.F.T.A. Governments through the Ambassadors in London, and the opportunity was taken of the presence in Washington of the Foreign Secretary to inform the Unites States Government.
§ THE EARL OF SWINTONWas that information or consultation?
§ LORD RHODESI want to answer the second question now. With regard to the alternative means, If presume the noble Earl is referring to quotas. May I say that the machinery for operating quotas was dismantled by the late Government a number of years ago, and it would have taken far too boa g to bring it into operation again.
§ THE EARL OF SWINTONMy Lords, the noble Lord has kindly told me of the messages that were, sent to all these different States. Was that a message informing them that the Government were going to break the treaties, or was it anything in the form of inviting discussion?
§ LORD RHODESMy Lords, the messages that were sent were as a result of the situation caused by the previous Administration, and action had to be taken quickly and in time, and this was done.
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, can the noble Lord say what is the purpose of being signatory to an agreement if, when convenient, one breaks it?
§ LORD RHODESI had that up my sleeve, but I did not want to use it. May I quote from a speech of the previous Chancellor of the Exchequer, when he said [OFFICIAL REPORT, Commons, Vol. 701, col. 239]:
… if the total amount of imports has to be cut back, there is something to be said for doing so by the most efficient method rather than by imposing quotas which may be extremely cumbersome to administer and more harmful to trade.
§ LORD DILHORNEMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord, in the light of his earlier answer, whether he would make one thing clear? I do not think it has been suggested by the Prime Minister or the Chancellor of the Exchequer that 822 there was any consultation with the countries to which the noble Lord referred in his supplementary answer. I think the first suggestion that there was any consultation came from the noble Lord's answer. Would he make it quite clear that the messages to which he referred were messages conveying the information of Her Majesty's Government's decision, and that in fact there was no prior consultation? I think that is on record.
§ LORD RHODESYes, my Lords, I agree. There was no time for consultation on the basis that the noble Lord suggests.
§ LORD RUSSELL OF LIVERPOOLMy Lords, would not the noble Lord agree that this is a record score for an innings which has so far lasted only about 40 days?
§ LORD RHODESI think that really it is a record situation, and time will tell.
§ LORD CHORLEYMy Lords, does not the noble Lord agree that this was entirely due to the unscrupulous political conduct of the last Administration?
§ LORD RHODESMy Lords, of course I agree.
§ LORD PEDDIEMy Lords, could I have the assurance that Her Majesty's Government, in taking this action, were not inspired by a number of precedents that were created during the previous Administration?
§ LORD RHODESMy Lords, of course there was one big precedent which was referred to by my colleagues on the Front Bench, but I do not wish to go into that at the moment.
§ LORD CONESFORDMy Lords, will Her Majesty's Government consider publishing a list of agreements which they propose to keep?