§ 3.45 p.m.
§ THE CHANCELLOR OF THE DUCHY OF LANCASTER (VISCOUNT BLAKENHAM)My Lords, with your Lordships' permission I wish to read to the House a statement which has just been made in another place by my right honourable friend the Minister of Labour. It will be convenient, I think, if I use his exact words. Before I come to that statement, may I say that my noble friend Lord St. Aldwyn has asked me to say that he was not accurate in referring to the subject-matter of the statement as "trade union amalgamations". In fact, the statement deals with the law affecting trade unions and employers' associations. The statement reads as follows:
"Recent decisions in the Courts have focused attention on the present state of the law affecting trade unions and employers' associations, which was last reviewed nearly sixty years ago. The Government are of the opinion that the law should again be reviewed. Such a review will be most effective if undertaken with the willing co-operation of both employers' associations and trade unions and free from the atmosphere of political controversy. I understand that the Trades Union Congress are themselves giving consideration to the effect of the recent judgments and they will be letting me have their views.
"The Government think that an inquiry such as they envisage should be undertaken early in the life of the next Parliament. They will seek the co-operation of the Trades Union Congress and the British Employers' Confederation and will at the appropriate time discuss with them the form and scope of the inquiry."
§ EARL ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, I am obliged to the noble Viscount for giving us the statement here, and I think the inquiry which is proposed is certainly called for.
964 I am rather doubtful about the suggestion that it should not be set up until the next Parliament. I do not know, of course, the date of the Election, to start with, but I agree entirely that this should be conducted, so far as possible, in a non-politically controversial atmosphere. I think the earlier the inquiry is set up—I take it, subject to the consultation which the Government are having with the Trades Union Congress—the more likely it would be that the General Election would not be interfered with in this way at all, because it would be sub judice, as being in the hands of a Government inquiry which had already been set up.
§ VISCOUNT BLAKENHAMMy Lords, I am glad the noble Earl agrees that this inquiry should be conducted in an atmosphere not politically controversial. I am as ignorant as he is of the actual date of the Election, but as each day goes by we obviously get nearer to it, and the atmosphere will be correspondingly highly charged. After deep consideration, the Government have thought it better that this should not take place in any pre-Election atmosphere.
§ EARL ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, it is for that very reason that I should have thought it very much better to have the inquiry set up, so that it could be regarded as being largely sub judice until a Report has been made.
§ VISCOUNT BLAKENHAMMy Lords, I think the Government have taken a different view, and I believe it to be the right view. I think there are great dangers that this subject might become involved in political controversy, and I think it better to wait until the next Parliament, when the Government of the day will be in a position to consider the scope and form of the inquiry.
§ LORD MORRISON OF LAMBETHMy Lords, like my noble friend the Leader of the Opposition I am getting a little alarmed at the tendency of the Government to announce things to be done by the next Parliament. Are the present Government presuming to bind a future Government, the colour of which we do not yet know, although we all have hopes? It is rather doubtful constitutionally, this business of the Government chancing its arm and saying, "We think 965 something should be done but we shall leave it until after the Election". I submit to the noble Viscount that it is stretching our Parliamentary practice a bit far, and I do not like it, apart from the merits of the case.
§ VISCOUNT BLAKENHAMMy Lords, on the point raised by the noble Lord, may I say that of course no Government can commit another Government, but in fact Her Majesty's Government are pretty certain that the Government which will take over after the next Election will feel in honour bound to carry out this undertaking. Supposing, by any mischance, a different Party were returned to power, of course that Party would be free to take another view if they so wished; but I think that eventuality is not likely to happen.
§ LORD MORRISON OF LAMBETHMy Lords, the noble Viscount has confirmed my point. First of all he says that, whatever the next Government may be, he thinks it will feel in honour bound to carry out a proposal of this Government. It may be it will, but honour does not come into it. It is a question of what it is right for the next Government to do in the public interest, and I submit to the noble Viscount that this business of announcing in this Parliament something we intend to happen in the next Parliament is taking liberities with the electorate and the next Parliament, whatever sort of Government there may be. The noble Lord has no right to assume that the next Government, especially if, as I hope will be the case, it happens not to be the same colour as this one, is going slavishly to agree with this Government.
§ VISCOUNT BLAKENHAMMy Lords, I made it quite clear in my answer that there is no question of asking any Government slavishly to agree with this. This seems to be an eminently sensible proposal; we do not want discussions about this taking place in an atmosphere of political controversy. I should have thought that noble Lords opposite would have seen good sense in that as well. I really think the noble Lord is making a mountain out of this molehill.
§ EARL ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, I think at least it would be as well for the noble 966 Viscount's right honourable friend who is in charge of this matter to take fresh counsel on this. I think it would be much more likely that you would make this matter sub judice if you could, with the consent of the Trades Union Congress, have a committee set up as early as possible. I am sure that would be the best way to obtain what we all want absence of political controversy over the inquiry.
§ LORD CONESFORDMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether he is aware that many of us, who have thought a good deal about this matter, are convinced that the decision to appoint a Royal Commission is right and can see that there may be a legitimate difference of opinion on whether that should be done now or after the Election? But is it not also a fact that setting it up now would not have the advantage that the noble Earl the Leader of the Opposition supposes? It would not make the discussion of trade union law a matter which was sub judice, and prevent discussion of it at the General Election. It could not possibly do so. Therefore, while I do not wish to intervene at all on the relative advantages of setting it up now or at a later date, I am suggesting that it would not, as the noble Earl who leads the Opposition supposes, make the matter sub judice if it were set up now.
§ VISCOUNT BLAKENHAMI think my noble friend is right. It was very much for the reasons that he has given that this decision has been taken. I think this is a right decision, and I hope that on reflection the noble Earl will agree. Of course, my right honourable friend is in touch with both the Employers' Confederation and the Trades Union Congress, and undoubtedly he will note what the noble Lord has said.
§ LORD HOBSONMy Lords, I wonder whether the noble Viscount will state why it is thought necessary to have a Royal Commission of inquiry into the whole field of trade union law.
§ VISCOUNT BLAKENHAMMy Lords,. what I said in the statement that my right honourable friend has made was that he will at the appropriate time, discuss the form and scope of the inquiry. Of course, this does not rule out a Royal 967 Commission, but it may be decided that some other form of inquiry may be suitable.