HL Deb 18 March 1964 vol 256 cc843-5

2.48 p.m.

EARL FORTESCUE

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they can give any figure showing the number of motor accidents due to mud and slush on windscreens and on lights, and whether they will consider legislation to make it compulsory for all vehicles to fit flaps of suitable size to their rear mudguards.]

THE PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF TRANSPORT (LORD CHESHAM)

My Lords, the number of accidents due to mud and slush on windscreens or vehicle lights is not known. My right honourable friend has stated in another place that the Road Research Laboratory are currently carrying out experiments on the problem of spray which may lead to useful results, particularly for heavy vehicles. Practical experiments are continuing. The Laboratory's studies include both rigid mudguards and flaps. When conclusions have been reached my right honourable friend will consider whether new regulations should be made under the powers he already has.

EARL FORTESCUE

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his reply. I should like to ask whether he is aware that Volkswagen and some types of lorry are already fitted with such flaps and that travelling behind them in a small car is very much safer than it is behind other cars?

LORD CHESHAM

Yes, my Lords, I am aware of the benefits, but I think that before such fitting should be made compulsory by regulation it is necessary, in view of the very wide range of vehicles, to make certain that we get it right and as effective as possible.

LORD SHEPHERD

My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether the experiments which are going on are really related to types of flaps, or are they related to the shape of mudguards? Because it is not only a question of safety but there is the other and very important question of pedestrians. One often sees pedestrians in our busy streets being sprayed by water, when I believe that if mudguards could be reshaped a lot of this could be prevented.

LORD CHESHAM

I am glad to tell the noble Lord that it is related to both, because this problem is in fact as much to do with what is thrown up at the side of the wheel as what comes out from the back.

LORD WAKEFIELD OF KENDAL

My Lords, can my noble friend give any idea as to how long is needed for the research results to be known? When will it be possible for a statement to be made about the results of this research to which he has referred?

LORD CHESHAM

My Lords, as always on questions of research, it is quite impossible to state a set time when it will be completed.

THE EARL OF GOSFORD

My Lords, may I put two further points to my noble friend? First, the research laboratory have to my personal knowledge been at this matter a very long time. Would he ask his right honourable friend to ask them to come up with some sort of interim reply? The second point is that certain types of lorry for carrying sand and gravel seem to have a design where the mudguards stop at the back of the lorry and do not come over the wheels. As a result, mud comes up. With such vehicles flaps would obviously be the answer as an interim measure. And these lorries are the worst offenders, I think.

LORD CHESHAM

My Lords, what we are seeking, and should find, is not an interim recommendation but a positive and conclusive result; and that is what is being worked on now.

LORD FERRIER

My Lords, arising out of the last supplementary, may I ask the noble Lord whether the research will also go into the question of vehicles carrying timber, particularly timber trailers? I saw one yesterday, in the centre of Salisbury Plain, without mudguards at all. Such trailers produce a very complicated structure of spray. May I ask whether that problem is already being examined? Further, I am not clear whether the research includes examination of the accidents caused by mud and slush being thrown up on to rear lights, which in my experience is responsible for many dreadful accidents involving stationary vehicles. May I ask the noble Lord if that point is being attended to by the Research Laboratory?

LORD CHESHAM

My Lords, the Road Research Laboratory are not conducting researches into accident causes. They are conducting researches, as I thought I made clear, into methods of reducing the spray thrown up, whether on to other vehicles or on to lights, and I had thought that they were considering all types of vehicle.