HL Deb 07 July 1964 vol 259 cc923-6

2.41 p.m.

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will see that the Minister for Sport uses his influence with the British Boxing Board of Control so that rules are made providing for all boxers to be examined, at least a month before a fight by their own or an independent medical practitioner.]

THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR EDUCATION AND SCIENCE (THE EARL OF BESSBOROUGH)

My Lords, I am informed that the British Boxing Board of Control require that a boxer should be examined before a fight and this is done on the day on which the fight is to be held by a doctor from a panel appointed by the Board of Control who must be a medical practitioner independent of either the boxer or his promoter. Boxers also have to undergo a medical examination when they apply for a licence to become professional boxers, and also produce a medical report from their own doctor annually when they apply for renewal of their registration. In these circumstances my right honourable friend who is responsible for the co-ordination of Government action in regard to sport, but is not Minister for Sport, considers that it would not be right to intervene with the Board for whose activities he is not responsible.

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that recently when a poor boy was killed in the ring, or died immediately afterwards, it was disclosed that one month before the fight he had been to see his own doctor in Wales, who gave him a medical examination and after examining him said that he was not fit to fight? The boy took no notice of this. He was certainly examined before the fight, but one could hardly say that the doctors who examine these boys before the fights are independent, in view of the fact that they are employed by the boxing business.

THE EARL OF BESSBOROUGH

My Lords, the facts are that Lyn James was examined six days before this fatal contest, in fact on June 10, and he was found to be perfectly fit. He was also examined again on the day of the contest. In regard to the noble Lady's implications concerning (shall I say?) the reputation of doctors, I think I should say that they are professional men who would not lightly neglect their proper functions. In the second place the Board of Control have no interest but to ensure the maintenance of the highest standards, both medically and otherwise, in the boxing profession.

LORD HENDERSON

My Lords, is it not possible to arrange that the medical histories of boxers are before the doctors before they allow them to go into the ring?

THE EARL OF BESSBOROUGH

My Lords, I will certainly refer this matter to my right honourable friend. It may be that this is in fact the case. Certainly they are examined at least once a year by their own doctors and on these other occasions by the B.B.B.C. doctors.

LORD MORRISON OF LAMBETH

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that a long time ago duelling became illegal in our country? I agree with my noble friend Lady Summerskill in principle on this second Question. Are the Government not contemplating the possibility that in view of some of the rather brutal elements of this sport it may be desirable and necessary for Parliament to prohibit boxing altogether? It seems to me it would be the best solution.

THE MINISTER WITHOUT PORTFOLIO (LORD CARRINGTON)

My Lords, I really think that question is much wider than the original Question on the Order Paper, and, with respect to the noble Lord, Lord Morrison of Lambeth, who is a great expert on Parliamentary procedure, I think he knows it is.

LORD MORRISON OF LAMBETH

My Lords, with respect to the noble Lord, the Leader of the House, I think his intervention is entirely premature and is becoming a little dangerous. I beg him not to go over the limits of what are the functions of the Leader of the House. I submit to the Minister concerned that this is relevant to the original Question and it is a matter the Government ought to take into account, and I should like his answer.

LORD CARRINGTON

My Lords, of course I should not dream of going beyond the duties of the Leader of the House. I think it is up to me, as Leader of the House, to suggest to your Lordships that on occasion we do go rather outside the scope of the Question asked, and really the noble Lord, Lord Morrison of Lambeth, is not asking anything which arises out of this Question. This Question is whether or not boxers should be examined a month before the fight by their own or independent medical practitioners, and the question he asked is would the Government ban boxing.

LORD MORRISON OF LAMBETH

My Lords, I still say the Leader of the House is intervening too soon, and if he continues to do this he will get across the general feeling of the House.

THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY

My Lords, with great respect to the noble Lord, I have been in this House very much longer than he has and it is an established tradition here, where we have no Speaker, that when members have to be reminded that they are going beyond the subject under discussion it can be done only by the Leader of the House. It is his duty to do it and he always has done it.

LORD MORRISON OF LAMBETH

My Lords, I know that. I am perfectly familiar, even in my short stay here, with what the duties of the Leader are, and I agree that in the absence of a presiding officer that is suitable; but, after all, the Leader of the House can look after himself without an ex-Leader coming to the rescue.