SMOKING IN CINEMAS AND THEATRES (Hansard, 11 February 1964)

§ VISCOUNT MASSEREENE AND FERRARD
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF HEALTH (LORD NEWTON)
My Lords, Her Majesty's Government are strongly in favour of people not damaging their health by smoking, wherever they may be, but this is a matter for persuasion, not prohibition, and a health education campaign is being vigorously developed.

§ VISCOUNT MASSEREENE AND FERRARD
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his Answer, but is he aware that for an extremely long time one has never been allowed to smoke in cinemas and theatres in France; and does he not agree that it is now time that Her Majesty's Government gave some sort of lead to the anti-smoking campaign by doing something definite?

§ THE EARL OF SWINTON
My Lords, before the noble Lord answers that, may I ask him whether, while Her Majesty's Government continue in office, we may continue to enjoy a little freedom and the exercise of free will?

§ LORD NEWTON
My Lords, may I reply first to my noble friend Lord Swinton? I would say the answer is undoubtedly, Yes. In reply to my noble friend Lord Massereene and Ferrard, I would certainly agree with him that it would be very pleasant, particularly for those of us who do not smoke, if other people did not smoke in cinemas or theatres—or, indeed, in hotels or restaurants. But that is precisely one of the difficulties. Once we start on a policy of prohibition, where do we stop?
As regards what we are doing, we are pursuing a very active campaign of health education. It is run centrally by my Department and the Ministry of Education, and locally by the local health and education authorities. We receive a lot of valuable assistance from news items and features in the Press, on the wireless and on television, and in a quiet way I even try to forward the campaign myself. Perhaps I might recall that last week, when we were debating the Question of the noble Baroness, Lady Summerskill, on Road Accidents, I went out of my way to inform your Lordships that, whereas in 1962 in Great Britain 6,709 people were killed on the roads, in the same period 26,383 people were killed by lung cancer—very nearly four times as many.

§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILL
My Lords, may I ask him whether he has examined the public health legislation of the country passed during this century? He says that he relies upon persuasion—to persuade people not to smoke, and so protect the health of the people. But he will find in every field of public health, whether it is infectious diseases, tuberculosis or even insisting that midwives should be qualified, that it has been necessary for the Government to legislate and so compel people to conform because they would not be persuaded.

§ LORD NEWTON
My Lords, I would not set myself up as an authority on all the public health legislation in the country, but I am bound to say on this matter of smoking that I do not take such an authoritarian point of view as does the noble Baroness. I am quite certain that the policy which we have been pursuing is right—namely, the policy of doing everything possible to make the facts about the hazards of smoking known to 473 the public so that they can draw their own conclusions. I do not believe that there can be many people in this country to-day who are not aware of the facts; and whether they draw what the noble Baroness or I would think were sensible conclusions on these facts is really a matter for them.

§ EARL ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGH
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that this shows the necessity for freedom?—and I must apologise to my noble friend. Is he aware that most of us who have been consistent smokers for more than sixty years, with advantage to our nerves and general outlook on life, have never yet had medical proof that smoking is a direct cause of cancer? Nor has anybody informed us what is the cause of cancer.

§ LORD NEWTON
My Lords, I am very sorry that the noble Earl, with all his authority as the Leader of the Opposition, should, so long after we have had these authoritative reports on this matter, try to throw doubts on the facts which have been established; and I cannot go with him on that.

§ EARL ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGH
You have never brought the facts to me.

§ LORD NEWTON
I certainly agree with what the noble Earl said about freedom, but on the issue of how one's nerves are affected, I can only say from my own experience that my nerves have not deteriorated since I have stopped smoking twelve years ago.

§ LORD CONESFORD
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the noble Earl, the Leader of the Opposition, is not allowed to smoke in this House, but it does not seem to prevent him from coming here, and there is no reason to think that if he were not allowed to smoke in the theatre he would refuse to go there?

§ EARL ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGH
My Lords, think of the relaxation after departing from your Lordships' House!

THE EARL OF ARRAN
My Lords, may I ask Her Majesty's Government a question quite straightforwardly without beating about the bush? Are they 474 interested in stopping cigarette smoking, which kills people, or are they not?

§ LORD NEWTON
My Lords, I do not know what my noble friend is trying to trap me into saying in reply to that question. If your Lordships remain in any doubt whatever as to the attitude of the Government in this important matter, then I do not think that anything I can say this afternoon will make your Lordships more aware of the danger.

THE DUKE OF ATHOLL
My Lords, would my noble friend's Department use their good offices to persuade the authorities in those places which allow smoking of cigarettes only either (with due deference to my noble friend Lord Swinton) to ban it completely or to allow cigars and pipes?

§ LORD NEWTON
All that would require legislation.